2 close decisions

NedForrest · #1 03-13-2007, 12:36 PM

Hand 1:

Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
7 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
4 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.4SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.2BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.2BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: 6.2BB

I put him on an 8. He s a tricky player who always plays back at me. He usually value bets the turn so any move on t he flop is likely to be a move. Should I raise the turn/bet river here? I almost raised the river since he cant value bet 1 pair hands. So he has a busted draw or better than 2 pair.

Hand 2:

Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.4SB, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, CO folds, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.7BB, 3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero folds.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (10.7BB, 2 players)
BB bets, UTG folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: 10.7BB

BB is 14/8 TAG and I ve never seen him get out of line/semibluff. I think he has TT and or some other hand that i m drawing thin/dead to. Bad fold? The pot is kinda big.

Chino987 · #2 03-13-2007, 12:43 PM

i would call and fold river UI in hand 2

Mr. Orange · #3 03-13-2007, 04:34 PM

Hand 1- looks ok against this opponent.

Hand 2- I don't like the turn fold. I'd call the turn and fold the river if you don't improve. The pot is too big (10.7:1) and while you could be up against a set you could also be up against against 2 pair (T9s, QTs).

James. · #4 03-13-2007, 04:44 PM

1)alot of ways to play it. this is okay. against the opponent described i actually think Khigh might be good here 1 in 7 times.

2)hand two i would call the turn getting 10+-1. we have a discounted OESD and boat outs.

bravos1 · #5 03-13-2007, 06:12 PM

hand 1 - K hi may be good, but raising would be very bad IMO. Why do you immediately put him on an 8 on the flop? Can he have a 9 here or better? Seems to me like you are the one trying to get fancy. If you think he has air on the river, then possibly call. Raising will only fold out A hi hands, but everything else is probably calling. It's not like the 2 was a scare card either.

Hand 2. What read do you have on UTG? This is very important for this hand. What hands does he have that limp/call and then donk the flop? If he does this with less that TP often, the the raise is OK, but I would not frequently try this. As played, I call turn and fold river.

bernie · #6 03-13-2007, 06:17 PM

Hand 1: Easily 3 bet the flop. You have a big draw in a blind steal situation.

Edit: Since you didn't, You just turned a nice draw so a raise there would be nice. A river raise looks odd. Especially with the card that came. Anything legitimate that you'd raise the river with, you'd probably have raised earlier. Why can't he value bet 1 pair hands here?

Hand 2: I can see a fold as you might only be drawing to a split pot, if that.

b

bernie · #7 03-13-2007, 06:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

2)hand two i would call the turn getting 10+-1. we have a discounted OESD and boat outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention the possibility of a split pot. That cuts the odds a bit too.

b

bravos1 · #8 03-13-2007, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Easily 3 bet the flop. You have a big draw in a blind steal situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bernie, a 3-bet does not seem right to me here. I would rather raise the turn if we feel he is pulling one over on us. What range do you put him on? And yes, I do realize that he could be doing this w/ ATCs, but I feel we can narrow it down more.

bernie · #9 03-14-2007, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Easily 3 bet the flop. You have a big draw in a blind steal situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bernie, a 3-bet does not seem right to me here. I would rather raise the turn if we feel he is pulling one over on us. What range do you put him on? And yes, I do realize that he could be doing this w/ ATCs, but I feel we can narrow it down more.

[/ QUOTE ]

He could have anything and just be doing a slingshot bet since no paint cards hit the board. Especially since he's a decent player. He's BB in a steal situation. You could have the best hand, you have a good draw(especially if he just has a pair). Nice spot to play back at someone especially if you have position.

b

NedForrest · #10 03-14-2007, 07:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 - K hi may be good, but raising would be very bad IMO. Why do you immediately put him on an 8 on the flop? Can he have a 9 here or better? Seems to me like you are the one trying to get fancy. If you think he has air on the river, then possibly call. Raising will only fold out A hi hands, but everything else is probably calling. It's not like the 2 was a scare card either.

Hand 2. What read do you have on UTG? This is very important for this hand. What hands does he have that limp/call and then donk the flop? If he does this with less that TP often, the the raise is OK, but I would not frequently try this. As played, I call turn and fold river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put him on a bluff/draw because he rarely value bets the flop. If he has a hand he s gonna raise the turn. I agree that the river raise is bad, also a flop 3bet would be bad. The best way to play this would be to raise the turn with my 10+ outs and he might just fold right there. He usually gives up when I show strength and doesnt call down much.

UTG donk bet: He has a wide range so I didnt think I was drawing and decided its better to defend. I m definitely ahead there more often than not.