NL50 QQ OOP gets 3bet

[corsakh]

4betting QQ preflop is never a good thing without a super fish or very extensive history.

[DenDuurs]

[ QUOTE ]
4betting QQ seems like turning your hand in to a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't 4-bet with QQ, then when do you 4-bet? With only KK/AA? Good luck!

[Go_BroKe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4betting QQ seems like turning your hand in to a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't 4-bet with QQ, then when do you 4-bet? With only KK/AA? Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

AK,KK,AA against "normal" TAGs at the micros.

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4betting QQ seems like turning your hand in to a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't 4-bet with QQ, then when do you 4-bet? With only KK/AA? Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

Only with AA.

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4betting QQ seems like turning your hand in to a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't 4-bet with QQ, then when do you 4-bet? With only KK/AA? Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

Only with AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aye, although with the right monkey, KK and AK too, but then again, I almost never 4 bet pre...I know my range is awfully small, so I almost never due it because of this.

And Panic, read my response earlier...I think you'll like it.

[corsakh]

4betting preflop with KK is a big leak, Felix. You should call and reeval the flop.

[DenDuurs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4betting QQ seems like turning your hand in to a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't 4-bet with QQ, then when do you 4-bet? With only KK/AA? Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

AK,KK,AA against "normal" TAGs at the micros.

[/ QUOTE ]

But we don't have a read on the Villain! Against nitty players, sure, I don't 4-bet QQ. But without a read? QQ is way too strong to setmine with.

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
So I was thinking about this on my drive home from work...

Assuming a "normal" (read: non2p2 player, but not a monkey) villain here, his 3bet range is probably AQ+, JJ+.

So, that said, according to pokerstove:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

73,629,072 games 0.032 secs 2,300,908,500 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.336% 49.93% 01.40% 36764358 1033849.00 { QhQs }
Hand 1: 48.664% 47.26% 01.40% 34797016 1033849.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }

</pre><hr />

Our proper play is to either b/3bet (although he essentially pushed w/ his raise) or crai. Folding can not be correct, assuming the above range.

But, that said, if you feel his range is AK, JJ+, you shouldn't have called preflop. Just sayin'....

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with these assumptions justifying a b/3bAI, because villain will not raise our donkbet with 100% of his preflop range. To be honest I think he is raising the donkbet with JJ+ only.

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
4betting preflop with KK is a big leak, Felix. You should call and reeval the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hardly bro.

Notice I mentioned "certain monkeys". I had a cat at my table the last two nights who was 82/75...bet your ass I'm 4betting/pushing AK, or TT+.

But my default is to almost never 4bet, so no leak bro. I pick my spots well, trust me there.


And Fiksdal, my point was that if his range was such PREFLOP, not on the flop.

I disagree with the flop bet to begin with. I should have stated to either c/r the flop or to fold, but if we fold, why the hell did we call the 3bet to begin with?

[corsakh]

Ok, I was just being an idiot. 4bet aa, kk and ak all you want. 4bet QQ-JJ 3betting light regulars for value. 4bet 89, 9T and TJ sooted most of the time against them too. These hands are made for this. You always know where you stand if you get called preflop. You always know where you stand when you see the flop. And you can not make a "bad call" since any good draw out there is worth paying with the stacks you have left. God forbid doing 4betting QQ against fish, unless its some sort of a maniac or the fihs is angry at you. You never get value out of this and only get called when your beat.