Facing a miniraise. JJ overpair, OOP in 3-bet pot

[Michaelson]

Everyone's always hating on the miniraise, but I think it can be effective. For instance, in this hand it has me pretty much completely confused.

Villain is pretty much unknown, but has been playing a pretty straight up TAG game from what I've seen. I'm on the LAGy side of TAG, but nothing outrageous, and villain hasn't been at the table long.

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $206.55
<u>Hero (BB): $244.70</u>
UTG: $305.05
MP: $219.18
<u>CO: $201.75</u>
BTN: $230.55

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt J J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $7</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $22</font>, CO calls $15

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($45) 6 3 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $34</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $68</font>, Hero is way ahead or way behind but doesn't know which and has to commit himself to find out...

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero is way ahead or way behind but doesn't know which and has to commit himself to find out...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. You can call and fold the turn, you can call and call the turn, you can push the flop, you can fold. You can do all sorts of things here based on what you think he'll think about which one you do.

[PropMike]

I don't really agree with this. Calling seems like a terrible play in this spot. It creates a huge pot in which I hand the initiative over to the villain who is in position. It also means taking a look at a turn, and possibly river, which could be horrible (A,K,Q and to a lessor degree 2,4,7). And if villain does have AA or KK, getting my remaining $110 in the pot (which would be about $180 after my call) will be pretty basic because, after all, calling gives me no extra information about his hand at all. If he checks behind and shoves the river, as long as no scare cards fall, I'm putting my chips in.

Which to my mind leaves me with the option of shove or fold. I just don't know which.

-Michaelson (on a different account)

[Kilillan]

What's your numbers and table image. What does "LAGy side of TAG" mean exactly. Has he seen you make big bluffs before?

I'd be inclined to 3-bet more preflop to eliminate the disadvantage of OOP.

My first inclination would be to fold to the minraise on the flop with a TAG table image. With a LAG table image my inclination would be to push.

[MatthewRyan]

This is just soooo player/image dependent its hard to answer.

WRT the miniraise, if he made it $90 instead I dont think your decision should change.

[PropMike]

[ QUOTE ]
What's your numbers and table image. What does "LAGy side of TAG" mean exactly. Has he seen you make big bluffs before?


[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure about numbers, probably 24/18 or thereabouts. I have not been far out of line, though, and this guy has not been at the table long. 3 orbits or so. I would have been the most active player in that time, but it's not like he would have had me pegged as a maniac or anything. I don't think that my image is particularly pertinent in this spot.. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.

[PropMike]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just soooo player/image dependent its hard to answer.

WRT the miniraise, if he made it $90 instead I dont think your decision should change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well this guy is pretty much unknown... Just looks taggy from what I've seen.

You're probably right that the miniraise doesn't make a lot of difference. I'm much more likely to shove over the top of a fishy miniraise than I am a propper $90 bet, though. I personally find it very frustrating/bad for my image folding to a miniraise in this sort of spot. Which is probably to say the that the problem is at my end...

[MatthewRyan]

FWIW I would fold vs a total unknown, since I think he's not doing this enough with 77-TT/air. But once you have some history of 3betting with him I probably push

[Kilillan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's your numbers and table image. What does "LAGy side of TAG" mean exactly. Has he seen you make big bluffs before?


[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure about numbers, probably 24/18 or thereabouts. I have not been far out of line, though, and this guy has not been at the table long. 3 orbits or so. I would have been the most active player in that time, but it's not like he would have had me pegged as a maniac or anything. I don't think that my image is particularly pertinent in this spot.. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your table image and how he perceives you is just as important as his numbers and how he's playing.

But if you're saying your table image is irrelevent and he's basically unknown, yeah I think this turns into a fold.