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  #31  
Old 09-30-2007, 01:09 AM
JacksonTens JacksonTens is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,169
Default Re: 77 against a steal

[ QUOTE ]
stretchmcgee loaned me $3k to get me back on my feets. i paid that guy 100% apr over 4 months!

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that mean you payed 6k for 3?

JT
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  #32  
Old 09-30-2007, 11:45 AM
Apanage Apanage is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 958
Default Re: 77 against a steal

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't there something to be said for taking the iniative pf when you have an edge in hopes to have villian give up on the flop. No matter what the flop, it would be a great result to just have villian fold to bet on the flop. If villian has 2 overs to our pair and we just call, even if he doesn't hit on the flop, there is a good chance he'll peel the flop. I think if we can do something when we're pretty sure we're ahead that can make our lives easier when we're not so sure, then it's to our benefit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all of what you´re saying.But the difference between us is that I think your life is going to get harder by preflop raising.
Equity wise your preflop 3-bet is worth 0.10 SB against villains range (40%) so your preflop advantage is not that great.And you are opening yourself up for a preflop cap which IMO is devastating for you regardless of Villain does it with a better or worse hand.
You are bying some folding equity against 6-outers on ace boards.But you´re trading that against the potential value you would have got from hands that would not be correct to bet, including the times when he is going to try to bluff turn and river.And I do think that it is a bad trade against this player.Because 77 is extremely hard to play if he calls flop which he will do the majority of time when the pot has grown to 8.5SB when he is going to act.We are not the ones controlling how many bets that are going into the pot.And we almost always have two outs if things go wrong which means that we´re basically in a WA/WB situation.

I think Oink did a good job of explaining why reraising preflop is not the best option in this particular hand.

Give us a lot more equity edge or just a little more folding equity and I would also raise preflop.
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  #33  
Old 09-30-2007, 12:40 PM
Willem_D Willem_D is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10
Default Re: 77 against a steal

[ QUOTE ]
This means that you should be more inclined to 3-bet 66-88 vs non SD bound players and call it vs SD bound players.

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I agree here. Showdown boundness is the most determining factor here IMO. In fact, if the stealer is weak (folds too often after the flop) and has a wide enough range so he can have many hands without an ace, then you should probably 3-bet any hand you want to play (especially hands without an ace like 77, QJs etc). Then if the flop comes with an ace (more chance if you don't have one), you will be able to take the pot there frequently.

If my opponent isn't weak, then I prefer to call an check-raise most non Axx flops (and some Axx flops too).

In this specific hand, I think you are toast most of the time (given his AF) and are drawing to 2 outs only. I would probably still call to see if I can spike a 7 or a 9.
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