Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.

[Jeff28]

My two cents:

First, I'm assuming you are keeping a seperate bankroll for poker and taking buy-ins above that recommended level for your NL game will go to an investment plan.

To start:

1. Max out your Roth IRAs for 2007 and 2008 ($9,000)
- Investment - Target Retirement 2040 or something from Vanguard.

2. Save 6 months of expenses in a money market/bank CD that is emergency money only. You're on a full ride, but think about what the real world would cost with rent and food and get this amount.

3. Make periodic passive index investments in tax advantaged index mutual funds or ETFs and forget about it and focus on poker and getting a good degree. Create an asset allocation and stick to it and rebalance as new money comes in. Don't time the market. Read Four Pillars of Investing by Bernstein and All About Assest Allocation by Ferri and create an asset mix you're happy with.

4. Make sure to plan for taxes and plan to get a good accountant in April.

--Jeff

[TheProdigy]

stephen;

Thanks for the kind words and the advice. I hope you are right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jeff;

Yes, you are correct on your first assumption.

1) I need to look into IRAs ASAP. Thank you for reminding me
2) 6 months of expenses are in a high yield savings account
3) This is what I am heading towards. I don't want to actively invest right now, just put it there and leave it. I will look into both of those books, thanks
4) Already got a CPA(I think this is the correct term for tax specialist, heh). Why do I need a good accountant?

[Yoshi63]

[ QUOTE ]

1. Max out your Roth IRAs for 2007 and 2008 ($9,000)
- Investment - Target Retirement 2040 or something from Vanguard.


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe Roth IRA contributions have to be "earned income," and gambling winnings don't qualify (unless you file as a professional gambler... probably a bad idea). Thus, unless you made $4500 working some 'regular job' this last year, I don't think you can deposit into a Roth account.

Correct me if I'm wrong - in fact plz shoot me a PM if I am, because this is my situation and I'd like to fill my Roth if possible.

[badatmath]

[ QUOTE ]
Already got a CPA(I think this is the correct term for tax specialist, heh). Why do I need a good accountant?

[/ QUOTE ]

CPA = Certified Public Accountant

[TheProdigy]

Sorry,

What is the formal name of one who specializes in taxes?

Anyways, I am starting this investment program at the beginning of 2008(for many different reasons), and would once again like to thank anyone and everyone who helped me out in this thread.

[pig4bill]

I re-read your OP. Your question to me about why you wouldn't learn trading in college was ably answered already. It just something that isn't taught. Except maybe at NYU and a couple other schools.

It sounds like you want to live in your old hometown after school? Figure out what kind of jobs are there. An engineering degree won't do you any good if nobody wants to hire an engineer there. You mentioned schools. Ever consider being a teacher? The pay isn't great but it's not bad either, the benefits are killer, and the job security is nearly unmatched. Plus you get summers off. Your college is big in education, so it seems like a good match.

As for where to learn how to trade. I just got back from the Vegas Traders Expo, and there are more trading schools than ever. As in any arena, some of them seem like ripoffs and are probably more hype than substance. Go to a Money Show or Traders Expo and soak up everything you can. When you start buying books or signing up for schools or services, go slow. The more you learn about this stuff, the more you'll be able to figure out what schools and services will be worthwhile and what won't.

[Tornado69]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pig4bill;


Next year I am really looking to expand my horizons. Real Estate and Stocks are a very big part of this.


Why do you say I won't learn anything in college? Do you have any recommendations for somewhere to learn? If this is something very important in my life(I think it is), I will pay almost any amount for the training needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all Congrats Prodigy for making these goals at a young age( i feel like such an old man,...ugh).

Making these goals with a REALISTIC outcome is the most important part of the equation IMO

I think what pig4bill was implying was...you are NOT going to learn much about trading in school,I belive he is is 100% correct

I dont exactly know the specific answer as to WHY.....but in my 20yrs of experience...most of the college grads that arrived on WS(whether it be a BA,Masters,Phd,JD or whatever)...had NO CLUE as to any of the in's and outs of WS finance,and depending on what firm they eventually worked for ...their implied sucessful learning curve was primarily based on WHO they worked WITH as a trader/mentor.

Out of a 100 graduates(all with the same schooling ,GPA,drive and motivation,etc)....from a PURE trading perspective,the ones that worked alongside or were mentored by the best/most suceessful traders...had the best chance of being a great trader themselves

The real-life experience gained from these individuals is unattainable at school,reading books,experimenting yourself,or the plain ole' "trail and error" method

Some of the best traders I knew had GED's(lol its true).....so the depth of your education wont mean chit 2 yrs down the road AFTER you get your job.Its only going to matter what you produce in profits from trading that count

Its basically going to be a "show me the money" trane of thought from the firms staking alot of money with you and your decisions on the line each day

Now ...this could also mean trading for a smaller prop house,where you have an equity financial risk at stake(you put up a percentage of your daily BP'er)....as compared to the big firms where your only as good as your LAST trade.

As to investing in Real Estate from monies earned from a job ,stock market investing,family money or even playing poker...this is a tried and true way of making you a wealthy man by retirement age,with MUCH less stress,non-split second decisions,and being invested in a leveraged instrument building a net worth that rivals little.You dont need a Phd,and can start off small...buying a 1 family house to live in renting out rooms,and working your way up to multi-family homes ,up to and including commercial buildings!

MOST wealthy real eastate entrepreneurs dont nessaceraly have a college degree.They have read alot of books,researched areas,foreclosures,listened/learned from friends or family members,and started off doing it their spare time.I believe they get EXACTLY as much out of it,as they put into it

I would venture to guess 90%+ of those that properly invest in real estate,dont OVERLEVERAGE themselves,do their homework,research well,build good credit(very important),......will be extremely pleased with their results/returns in 20+ yrs.

If some of these young bright HSNL poker minds....would invest the vast majority of their winnings in rental apts/houses/commercial strips on a yearly basis....not only are they taking monies that earn NOTHING and putting them to work,they are taking money off the poker table and lowering their chance of ROR as well.This is very stable and safe way to leverage your earnings to greater heights

Now if these same bright minds THINK they can invest in the stock market so easily....SLOW DOWN...there are MANY more factors/intricacies that come into play,that it can sometimes also co-incide with a gambling type mentality that I think many poker players are naive to when first touching the market.
Daytrading,dealing with options with little or NO experience,margin abuse,etc...can amount to huge losses if they think it is like playing hold em'....it is NOT

If we take it to the LAST step and say you want to "just be trader"...there are COUNTLESS variables.It takes alot of time,losses ,hard knocks,and no matter what anyone says.....experience is the ONLY way you will truly learn/and master this art.
It is a FULLTIME job...no if,ands or buts

When I first bought the Daytrading arm of my company.....I would literally have 100's of diff. prospective DT'ers sit RIGHT next to me at the trade desk,have the same info I did,I would tell them which stocks I was screening,looking to buy/short,and actually execute right in front of them,while they had the SAME software,computer set-ups,sqwawk to listen too....whatever.....and they COULDNT successfully do it.Be it speed,quick thinking,OVER thinking,balls,whatever...it just isnt meant for everybody,and only an EXTREME few even had a chance.They would show losses as I would show a profit on the SAME type trade...and I would scratch my head in frustration time after time

After several months of this pre-screening process "MAYBE" 10 guys of every 100 ....even had a CHANCE at being a successful trader year over year( i am not talking about ONE good trade..ONE good month...or ONE good year).I am talking about year after year after year.

When I would peruse the firms daily P+Ls...the same few guys made money day in and day out.It got to be where the most profitable trades were almost a given by these same talented few individuals

I actually came to believe that the split second decisions/hardcore mentality needed to become a great trader.....was HARDER for the math wiz types that got 800 on their SAT's,graduated from PENN with an MB,and was currently thinking about attaining his doctorate?

It is really an individual situation,with everybodies success being a case by case story

Good Luck
Stephen [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

***if you have any other questions ....feel free to just ask

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the best posts I've read in awhile. I am/was involved in much of this type stuff including day trading and it's much MUCH easier said than done to be successful at this. As Doyle Brunson said "there's no substitute for experience". You can read all the books you want but some people just have 'it' and some people don't.

I remember my first trade my first day of day trading. I had practiced fake buying/selling for a couple weeks after reading some books and decided I had done good enough to giver. I had about 11k in my account and I made 3300 dollars in 20 minutes the first day. I thought I was just a natural at this and was figuring how much I'd make for the year. Boy was I in for a rude awakening. I went the next 3 months roughly breaking even and learned a ton in the process. I soon realized I didnt' think it was for me. Staring at a chart go up and down that much for hours on end gets pretty boring and it wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. It was hours of boredom and moments of terror. I had a guy on another poker forum had been helping me out teaching me a lot and told me some stocks he was thinking of getting. Turns out it was high risk stock and I was unaware and as I was seconds away from buying it, a 1.71 stock I was ready to put 12k into, dropped like a sack of rocks to .30 cents ... I would have basically dropped everything I had. I found out 3-4 months in that it wasn't something I wanted to do. It was quiet stressful and I can see why so many stock guys are burned out in there 20's.

I just bought a house in February. Bought it for 351k, it was worth 375k, and now is worth 400k. 50k I've made this year. That same $ I used to day trade with was what I had paid for down payment for my home and this is the easiest 50k I've ever made. IMO through my experiences thus far with poker/stocks/real estate and through what I've seen through others is buy real estate if you have a good chunk of $ and use a smaller chunk of $ for stocks or 'fun' money as I like to call it. Use this fun $ to fiddle with stocks if that's what you want to do and use it to learn with. Fun $ should be $ that won't necessarily hurt you if you bomb and lose it. Hope this helps a bit.

[TheProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
I re-read your OP. Your question to me about why you wouldn't learn trading in college was ably answered already. It just something that isn't taught. Except maybe at NYU and a couple other schools.

It sounds like you want to live in your old hometown after school? Figure out what kind of jobs are there. An engineering degree won't do you any good if nobody wants to hire an engineer there. You mentioned schools. Ever consider being a teacher? The pay isn't great but it's not bad either, the benefits are killer, and the job security is nearly unmatched. Plus you get summers off. Your college is big in education, so it seems like a good match.

As for where to learn how to trade. I just got back from the Vegas Traders Expo, and there are more trading schools than ever. As in any arena, some of them seem like ripoffs and are probably more hype than substance. Go to a Money Show or Traders Expo and soak up everything you can. When you start buying books or signing up for schools or services, go slow. The more you learn about this stuff, the more you'll be able to figure out what schools and services will be worthwhile and what won't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I am really hoping to gear towards other things now. I think if I can make a good profit at these games playing where I play(the players here are setting goals at like 275k when playing as many hands as I do), then I can just invest all this money I save as well as continue playing. Do I know if this will turn out how I want? Absolutely not, and that is why I am staying in school. I think with how I love competition and can handle these swings, my next stop would be the markets. I think a Finance degree then branching into a couple trading schools is a good way to get this to be my option B, if the first option falls through.

As of now I don't know how things will go, but I don't know about teaching as an option. I like teaching others, but am actually impatient when teaching/being in a school. Repeating things/etc isn't my thing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But I am not going to throw this out, as I really really do enjoy helping other people, and this is one avenue that I could take, but the problem is I really do enjoy money. A couple of years ago I would've said money is #1 to me, and now I don't think like this. I know there are so many more important things, but setting myself up financially is a big thing to me still. If this part of me continues to fade, then teaching may be an option [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Thanks again

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember my first trade my first day of day trading. I had practiced fake buying/selling for a couple weeks after reading some books and decided I had done good enough to giver. I had about 11k in my account and I made 3300 dollars in 20 minutes the first day. I thought I was just a natural at this and was figuring how much I'd make for the year. Boy was I in for a rude awakening. I went the next 3 months roughly breaking even and learned a ton in the process. I soon realized I didnt' think it was for me. Staring at a chart go up and down that much for hours on end gets pretty boring and it wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. It was hours of boredom and moments of terror. I had a guy on another poker forum had been helping me out teaching me a lot and told me some stocks he was thinking of getting. Turns out it was high risk stock and I was unaware and as I was seconds away from buying it, a 1.71 stock I was ready to put 12k into, dropped like a sack of rocks to .30 cents ... I would have basically dropped everything I had. I found out 3-4 months in that it wasn't something I wanted to do. It was quiet stressful and I can see why so many stock guys are burned out in there 20's.


[/ QUOTE ]

It certainly depends on your temperament and interest in the subject. I'm up at 6 am for the 6:30 open. The market closes at 1 pm, but I'm watching the after-hours action until at least 2 pm, often till 4 pm. I'd trade till 6 pm if the market stayed open that long. I've been trading low-intensity style since the 70's, and high-intensity style for over 10 years. I love this [censored].

[TheProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I remember my first trade my first day of day trading. I had practiced fake buying/selling for a couple weeks after reading some books and decided I had done good enough to giver. I had about 11k in my account and I made 3300 dollars in 20 minutes the first day. I thought I was just a natural at this and was figuring how much I'd make for the year. Boy was I in for a rude awakening. I went the next 3 months roughly breaking even and learned a ton in the process. I soon realized I didnt' think it was for me. Staring at a chart go up and down that much for hours on end gets pretty boring and it wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. It was hours of boredom and moments of terror. I had a guy on another poker forum had been helping me out teaching me a lot and told me some stocks he was thinking of getting. Turns out it was high risk stock and I was unaware and as I was seconds away from buying it, a 1.71 stock I was ready to put 12k into, dropped like a sack of rocks to .30 cents ... I would have basically dropped everything I had. I found out 3-4 months in that it wasn't something I wanted to do. It was quiet stressful and I can see why so many stock guys are burned out in there 20's.


[/ QUOTE ]

It certainly depends on your temperament and interest in the subject. I'm up at 6 am for the 6:30 open. The market closes at 1 pm, but I'm watching the after-hours action until at least 2 pm, often till 4 pm. I'd trade till 6 pm if the market stayed open that long. I've been trading low-intensity style since the 70's, and high-intensity style for over 10 years. I love this [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds perfect.