CP2-7 decisions

MarkGritter · #1 05-14-2007, 06:26 PM

How would you set the following in Chinese Poker with 2-7 in the middle, using 2-4 scoring?

#1: 2233555668JQA
#2: 4568JK[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 23899JA
#3: 344579TTJJQKA
#4: 22445678TTJQK
#5: 3569J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 35789TJQ

Bonus question: What do these hands have in common?

Research question: Do the suits matter even if you can't make a flush?

Carolina Pirate · #2 05-15-2007, 03:37 AM

Can you link me to somewhere with CP info. I hear about this game more and more but Ihave never played it and it seems like you're an expert at this game also.

Thanks,
CP

karpov · #3 05-15-2007, 09:35 AM

This is my play for these hands:

#1: 2233555668JQA
A: 55632 23568 AQJ
B: 55566 22338 AQJ
I play A because I think 86 is stronger in this case than 5s full having 555663322 too many small cards.

#2: 4568JK 23899JA
JJ996 23458 AK8 I don't like 99A on top

#3: 344579TTJJQKA
JJTT4 34579 AKQ This time is closer to play TTA on top because I have several Broadway cards, but I still prefer 2 pairs in the back.

#4: 22445678TTJQK
TT842 24567 KQJ I don't see other way

#5: 3569J 35789TJQ
J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 35789 TJQ

Bonus question: What do these hands have in common? No front, weak back and strong 2-7.

Research question: Do the suits matter even if you can't make a flush? I don't see why, if they do I would love to learn why.

karpov · #4 05-15-2007, 09:46 AM

Mark, can you find out the answer how to play these two classical hands, they are very frequent and I'm not still sure which way is better.

1- AKQ92 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 234668KA
It's better to play the flush or split AA KKQ?

2- AKJ92 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4442368Q

444 on front with Q in the middle or 86 with 44Q on top?
Your answer will be very valuable to me. Thanks.

MarkGritter · #5 05-15-2007, 10:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]

1- AKQ92 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 234668KA
It's better to play the flush or split AA KKQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against 4372 sample hands, the flush (29QKA[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 23468 6KA) is better by 0.10-0.15 points.

(With 2h9hQhKhAh 2s3s4s6c8c 6sKcAc--- no diamonds--- the flush is about +0.55 and AA/KK is +0.40. With 2h9hQhKhAh 2s3d4s6c8d 6dKcAd, a more even distribution of suits, the flush is +0.54 and the AA/KK split is closer, about +0.44. If we make the 3 and the 8 hearts, the AA/KK is about +0.33.)

[ QUOTE ]

2- AKJ92 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4442368Q

444 on front with Q in the middle or 86 with 44Q on top?
Your answer will be very valuable to me. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trips in back (2h9hQhKhAh 2s3c6d8cQd 4c4d4s) is about +0.91, while playing the 86 in the middle is only +0.67. (About 4500 samples.)

MarkGritter · #6 05-15-2007, 10:27 AM

I am not an expert, I just like writing code. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The best source for Chinese Poker strategy is Don Smolen's book and program. http://www.thesmolens.com/Don/Chinese/ Unfortunately they only address normal CP, not 2-7 in the middle.

MarkGritter · #7 05-15-2007, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is my play for these hands:

#1: 2233555668JQA
A: 55632 23568 AQJ
B: 55566 22338 AQJ
I play A because I think 86 is stronger in this case than 5s full having 555663322 too many small cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without giving the answer away, I'd like to note that 55566 22338 AQJ is awful--- you'd be strictly better off playing the threes in front, with 55566 228JQ 33A. (And 55533 228JQ 66A would be slightly better since the kicker on a full house never matters in CP.)

2461Badugi · #8 05-15-2007, 11:13 AM

I think they all have two or more equal strategies. That doesn't mean I've found them.

#1: 2233555668JQA
55533 28JQA 662 or 55632 23568 AQJ

#2: 4568JK[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 23899JA
JJK86 85432 99A or KJ865[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2348J 99A

#3: 344579TTJJQKA
JJKQ4 34579 TTA or TJQKA 34579 JT4 or TJQKA 3579T 44J.

#4: 22445678TTJQK
45678 24JQK TT2 or TT842 24567 KQJ.

#5: 3569J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 35789TJQ
56789 359TQ JJ3 or J9653[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 35789 QJT or 89JTQ 3567J 995.

karpov · #9 05-15-2007, 01:58 PM

I'd like to note that 55566 22338 AQJ is awful

You are right, my mistake, anyway I don't play the fullhouse.

karpov · #10 05-15-2007, 05:45 PM

(With 2h9hQhKhAh 2s3s4s6c8c 6sKcAc--- no diamonds--- the flush is about +0.55 and AA/KK is +0.40. With 2h9hQhKhAh 2s3d4s6c8d 6dKcAd, a more even distribution of suits, the flush is +0.54 and the AA/KK split is closer, about +0.44. If we make the 3 and the 8 hearts, the AA/KK is about +0.33.)

So Mark, do you mean if no diamonds there is more chance they will play a lower flush on the back and our flush becomes stronger?