misread my hand, winner mucks

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
I would award this pot to the small blind. (assuming this hand took place in some place like LA, Vegas, or Miss).

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any concern that in a tournament this sort of thing effects the other players (who don't know that the other player would have won since he folded face down) tournament play allows you to use other penalties -- might it be more appropriate to give the the offender time away from the table?

[Dan.]

[ QUOTE ]
I would award this pot to the small blind. (assuming this hand took place in some place like LA, Vegas, or Miss).

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this based solely on the fact that OP miscalled his hand? Would you do this if SB had tabled a hand worse than A-high, but OP still miscalled a straight?

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
who don't know that the other player would have won since he folded face down)

[/ QUOTE ]

Since he was the caller I would speculate that he would have won since he was the caller. If he had been the bettor and threw his cards in the muck I would not have awarded the pot to him because there is a decent probability that he was on a busted draw that the naked ace could beat.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would award this pot to the small blind. (assuming this hand took place in some place like LA, Vegas, or Miss).

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this based solely on the fact that OP miscalled his hand? Would you do this if SB had tabled a hand worse than A-high, but OP still miscalled a straight?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is an obligation to note overstate the value of your hand. If a player reacts to you overcalling your hand by mucking theirs they are entitled to some protection. If it can be found that a player intentionally overcalled their hand their hand is dead without question if their opponent mucked. In this case I don't think he intentionally overcalled his hand. In cases where it was not intentional I can't remember a player ever asking for the pot after the other player mucked. Most players are honest and agree their opponent should get the pot if they announced a hand they didn't have. The angle shooters on the other hand get quite upset when they successfully got the other player to muck their cards and then learn that overcalling your hand is not a valid tactic.

[chucky]

silently turn your cards up and make them visible to the dealer. If people are miscalling their own hands, they should not declare them in the first place. This is one of the reasons why we tip dealers and pay for dealer juice.

[dbldwnblue]

Why in the world is it that every time there is a problem with the dealer making a mistake it has to be a she? I deal. Im male and I have FUBARed way to many hands to remember (i learn from my mistakes but still). So yeh. why is it its always a female that is dealing when someone Fs up.

[Spidar]

A few points after having slept.

I think the dealer read my hand as a straight and only after SB's bullet muck did he realize his mistake. I say so 'cause he immediately pushed me the pot and said that's your's. I didn't immediately pull in the chips and the dealer kinda raised his tone and repeated himself and I raked in the chips. SB, who I'd been having a conversation with throughout the tourny, said he had 55, but no one ever saw his hand. I went to the floorman, who I've known for close to 10 years, and explained the situation. He said he's never known me to do anything like that and there was nothing to demonstrate intent so he was content to let it go. Had I been flashed the 55 prior to the bullet muck. I woulda of course given him the pot. The end result was that I went on tilt, played like crap and was in the sights of a few players who eventually busted me.

[springsteen87]

I would never pay him, ever. As a poker player you should not care whether or not another player loses, granted you kind of took an angle shot on that (incidentally). But it's poker 101 to not throw your hand into the muck til you see cards.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you were wrong.

If the dealer pushed you the pot, then he's wrong.

If the floor ruled that you should get the pot, then he's wrong.

If SB stood by and did nothing while the pot was shipped to you, then he's wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

You would advocate it be standard operating procedure for a dealer to always push the pot to the "non misdeclared hand" player in this situation?

No floor necessary? Just have the dealer unilaterally decide to ship the pot to the only player with a dead hand on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't put words into my mouth. When I said the dealer was wrong to push the pot to the OP, that does mean I think the dealer should "unilaterally decide to ship the pot to the only player with a dead hand on the river".

There's a third option, of which I think the dealer should avail himself: call the floor before pushing the pot anywhere.

[ QUOTE ]
I think any rulling should go in favour of said player, but it has to be instituted by the floor. AND the decision to call the floor should be made by the offended party, not the dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a tournament. When something like this happens, every player in the tournament, even at other tables, is among the "offended party".

There are lots of times that a dealer should let the "offended party" make the call. A string bet in a heads-up pot is a fine example, because why call the infraction if the offended party WANTS to be raised? Who is being protected?

In this case, it's safe to assume that the offended party does not want the pot pushed to his opponent with the inferior hand.

And in a tournament, there is no such thing as heads-up pot, until there are only two players remaining in the tournament.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
Why in the world is it that every time there is a problem with the dealer making a mistake it has to be a she?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've gone to using "she" in my posts to describe dealers. I don't reserve it for posts where the dealer makes a mistake.

It's just a way to avoid confusion among pronouns. Every post usually has a Hero, a Villain, and a Dealer. Calling them all "he" can lead to confusion. Designating one as "she" helps relieve that.