nl25 -- cbet defense fundamentals

[jtr]

[ QUOTE ]
This board's probably not the best to take a stand here, but if I decide to get jiggy I'm ccing the flop and then donking any turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, I quite like this suggestion. You certainly have to do this some proportion of the time if you're likely to play a large number of hands with the opponent. But in a vacuum I'd fold.

[clowntable]

Why would we 3bet this PF?
I'm giving him a range of PP, AQ+ which amounts to 8.3% which I think is very close to what he'll play from this position given his overall 15% PFR.
I'd say he calls/4bets with JJ+(maybe TT) and AK+ (maybe AQs because he's in position) and folds the rest.
So by 3betting he folds what we're ahead of and calls/raises with hands that with the exception of AK crush us.
So we'll pla a 3bet pot OOP vs a range that crushes us.
Note that his AF is 4 so eventhough he might be nitty on his PF raises he won't exactly roll over PF.
I call and mostly play for set value, we have 45% equity vs his range.
Due to his AF I don't donk it here but I'm likely to float a big % of the time depending on his cbet% stats (which are close to 100% here).
We can potentially get him to lay down TT/QQ with a PSB on the turn, especially if a heart falls.

tl;dr call PF or set value mainly but with a flop like this don't instmuck it and float every now and then.

p.s.: I think this hand illustrates nicely why it's not an auto 3bet in position either. With the 99 we like the call flop, check behind undercard on the turn sequence wheras depending on villain we may or may not fold TT-QQ with a cbet on this flop (depends on villain i guess)

[bulldawgblue]

I'm not sure you want to head off his c-bet. You get more value from c/c.

[members_only]

I think I c/c here almost all the time. Given description of villain, I'd have to figure I was way ahead of his c-betting range, but I don't like a c/r because I doubt I'm ahead of his calling range.

None of the three options is exactly going to make this hand easy to play.

Interesting to hear jtr's argument for folding. I would point out though that you are assuming he has some sense of position, which is by no means a given. I keep being surprised when I look at even seemingly solid players' stats on Realtime and finding that they raise the same % of hands regardless of what seat they're in. (Some even seem to raise more UTG lol.)

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
Every now and then I'll play back in this spot, I don't auto muck to a cbet here, not at all. This board's probably not the best to take a stand here, but if I decide to get jiggy I'm ccing the flop and then donking any turn.

[/ QUOTE ]


i never make this play Im not sure why but I always just assume it looks like a blocking bet with a draw and gets called lightly Im not saying its a bad play but im not so shure what it reps other than just saying well UTG misses this board enough to make this bet show a profit?

I hardly ever take that line with sets either though lol cause they always fold so maybe I anserwed my own question.

[DaycareInferno]

if i'm going to donk or cr, i'll do it with a JT or a set. i don't understand the point of doing it with 99.

[munkey]

I prefer drier flops [w/o fdraw] and IP obv I'll make raises or floats way more often and even bluff the flush sometimes.

mostly I c/fold here and donk sometimes to give my big draws/sets or some TP SC hand some shania.

c/c and lead turn I prefer with more equity -i.e few more outs or TP hand.

Mostly c/f as played.

P.S. I'm running bad so nit warning

[comfortably_numb]

Given the situation that OP thinks there will be a c-bet nearly 95% of the time from villain, I also tend to play back sometimes...in this case I'd go for a check/raise on the flop to try and take the hand down. If villain calls or shoves you're done in my opinion.

[Perk76]

I like to c/c (float) and lead the turn. Keeps the pot manageable and doesnt quite keep the control in the villans hands. Keeping the pot smaller on the flop allows you to see one more card and decide next action based on which draws hit/didnt hit.

Depending on the villan it only takes ya one time to do it this way to find out how he reacts. You can then use the same line with stronger hands later etc and sometimes get them to 3bet turns lighter than they should be which almost commits them.

[CrAcK_N_CoKe]

Against the automatic c-bet on that flop , i think i would:

donk bet a 85% of the pot size-bet , if he raise it depend on villain and the flow of the game.Sometimes fold , sometimes re-raise , probably never call if i donk bet.

Sometimes i check-call and re-evaluate on the turn , but if i call on the flop , im more likely to call the turn as well except if the turn is an ace cuz the ace hit a too large part of his utg-raising/c-betting range.Sometimes i will call flop and lead turn but to lead turn i really prefer to donklead flop.

Sometimes i check-raise and probably fold to a shove against the majority of my opponants except some exceptions where we are bluffing too much at each others which happens from time to time.

I think i would use the 3 lines but check-raise the most with the donk bet and check-call less.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and when im on tilt , i might check-shove overbet [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]