Screwed this one up, 200/400 vs UrinDanger

[KRANTZ]

i think you should c/c river but i wonder if anyone agrees with me. but you def effed up the rest of the hand. his river shoving range given flop/turn action should be real tight, right? like QK+? and he has to decide not to raise flop/turn with that range...

but maybe c/c is too thin? can't be insanely thin considering how big the pot is

[riverboatking]

i'm a pretty big POW so i'd prolly insta call this.
however its a pretty good spot for him to slowplay a big hand like a set on the turn.
board is pretty dry and a good amount of the time you are FOS so why take you out of the lead especally as villian has less the a PSB left on the river so he doesn't need to worry about building the pot to stack off.

if i'm villian in this hand i'm never raising the turn with a real hand.

all in all i def think this is a good spot to give up, i'm all for hero calls but this situation its just too likely he shows up with a real hand.

he can't really ever float the turn profitably cuz he isn't deep enough to try and bluff raise the river if you decide to lead and take the play away from him.

in my experience good players tend to avoid spots where their ability to make a play at the pot can be completely taken away from them no matter what they do.

if he wants to bluff you profitably his only chance is the turn where a raise will be close to a PSB, if he tries a double float on the turn in these kinds of spots its just way too spewy as far to often he has to give up if you lead river, or he gets looked up a ton cuz he lays a good price to call river.

add to all that the lack of any good scare cards he can use to bluff you with on the river and i think its a clear fold (yes i know straight cards could come ie: 89/78 etc but i think most good players raise the turn with this type of combo draw, and so i dont think they are legitimate scare cards)

however if the villian isn't smart enough to realize this then forget everything i said.
i am clearly not that familiar with the high stakes online players as was made clear to me in the Grim KK vs benyamnine thread so my thoughts are just general observations and in this case it just seems like a bad spot for the villian to set up a multiple street float/bluff.

[snagglepuss]

at first i thought chk-fold. then i thought pretty much what krantz posted and thought so chk-call. but now i think some draws that he would be bluffing w/ here on river would have just shoved the turn. i think too often on river he is going to show up with a set or the flopped joint, looking for you to spew off 3-barrel. or bet for value/protection again on turn, only to get stuck chk-calling brick rivers if you had a big one pair hand.

[snagglepuss]

wow i should have probably read rbks post instead of glancing over it to post.

[KRANTZ]

[ QUOTE ]
at first i thought chk-fold. then i thought pretty much what krantz posted and thought so chk-call. but now i think some draws that he would be bluffing w/ here on river would have just shoved the turn. i think too often on river he is going to show up with a set or the flopped joint, looking for you to spew off 3-barrel. or bet for value/protection again on turn, only to get stuck chk-calling brick rivers if you had a big one pair hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

yah i changed my mind too... rbk's post is goooooooood

[Ansky]

[ QUOTE ]
however if the villian isn't smart enough to realize this then forget everything i said. i am clearly not that familiar with the high stakes online players as was made clear to me in the Grim KK vs benyamnine thread so my thoughts are just general observations and in this case it just seems like a bad spot for the villian to set up a multiple street float/bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain is one of the best fwiw... def feared/respected.

[king_of_drafts]

Good post rbk, I pretty much agree with all of it, including the part where you would've instacalled. :B

[Mad Genius1]

River is a vv easy fold.

Given your image and his image, I actually like how the whole hand played, the turn is a toss-up but for many reasons I don't mind it.

[HobbitFeet]

Given how the hand was played (flop and turn bet is probably the best you could have done to give yourself a chance to win the pot). I think one good play on the river is the 2 Second Pause-Min Block Bet. If he has a really big hand he will certainly push a pot sized bet/all-in. However, if he is floating a push from a min-block bet would be suicide if he is wrong (if you did have a big hand). A Min Block Bet essentially gives him a 10% push, 10% fold, 80% call.

[spino1i]

What, pray tell, is the point of this turn bet? Why would you want to bloat the pot with a medicore hand out of position on a draw heavy board? Its like inviting yourself for trouble. I like turn check and possibly call depending on bet.

As played I think river is a fold. Yeh he could have a busted straight draw or club draw, but its more likely he was just trying to trap you with position and when you didnt go along with the program and checked the river he pushed.