Learned an important lesson today

Ransome · #1 09-14-2006, 10:33 AM

I've learned an important lesson today. It was something I knew before, but now that I've lost money by ignoring it, I think it has sunk in.

The setting: Loose aggressive 2c/5c nolimit table. I'm sitting in 6th position.

My hand: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Two limpers to me, I raise to 30c. I get 3 callers (hoping for less, oh well). Their positions were BB, UTG, 4th.

The flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
It is checked to me. I really don't want to see an ace come down with 3 people still in, so I make a bigger bet than usual, 1.5x the pot. BB and UTG fold, and the Villian in 4th position calls.

The turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
The Villian checks, I bet again, this time at 3/4 the pot (now I want him to stay in, and am trying to get as much from him as I think he'll give me). He calls.

The flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
It is checked to me again. Here is where I make my mistake. I make a $3.40 bet (the size of his remaining stack). He calls, and turns over 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I should have never made such a large bet without something better than an overpair. If he had nothing, any bet would have (probably) chased him away. The only way that most people would have called my bet is if they had at least two pair or a set.

Anyway, I mostly wrote this post for myself [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I figure that writing it down will help me to remember not to do this again.

Comments?

EMc · #2 09-14-2006, 10:40 AM

No, you palyed it fine.

This is just a BBV post. And a pretty poor one at that.

lairnair · #3 09-14-2006, 10:42 AM

Villain called a 1.5x pot bet, out of position, on the flop with no pair and no draw? WTF!!!???

ColdSteel · #4 09-14-2006, 10:43 AM

I don't think it's so clear cut that your river push was bad. If your opponent was the sort of person who tends to overvalue one pair hands and would call your push with AQ, your push was a good one. It depends on the person.

I do think the probable reason you pushed the river was actually your problem. I feel like you pushed the river in order to force the opponent out of the pot. I used to feel the same way, and I would make too many aggressive river moves for the wrong reasons. I would even bet big on the river when I was confident my opponent had nothing or something I beat, and I was happy & proud when he folded & showed that I did have the best hand.

That's not good, though. When I was making these aggressive moves in order to push off even weaker hands, it was really a kind of weak-tightness. I just didn't want to play poker in this spot. I was uncomfortable. I didn't know how to handle the situation. So I make these big moves, they all fold, and I feel good! But I should feel like I made a mistake becasue even though I won the pot with the best hand, and even though the opponent might not have put a single chip in no matter what I did, I still made a mistake. I was aggressive for the wrong reasons.

Dave I · #5 09-14-2006, 10:45 AM

I think your being results oriented. At this level any Q is playing the same way. I bet he calls a push on the turn with just the 8 even, since he called the flop overbet with basically nothing. You did nothing wrong here. Continue to bet these hands hard. Sometimes they get lucky, that's what we have bankrolls for. Obviously, if you had a read that he wouldn't call with only a pair that is a different story.

cambraceres · #6 09-14-2006, 10:47 AM

There is a subtle Tactical aspect to this hand, but it is really BBVish. The mistake you made was not the size of your bets, your line was fine in that respect. The only thing that you could have done better was closely inspect villain's line. When a villain, especially at this level, has a line of Check/call check/call CRAI, then you are beat aboput every time. Your villain outplayed you, because of the action, not the board.

And by the way, if the stakes are 2c/5c, there is no reason to tell us it's an LAG table, that is self evident.

Cam

Dave I · #7 09-14-2006, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I do think the probable reason you pushed the river was actually your problem. I feel like you pushed the river in order to force the opponent out of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point and you probably right. We are betting for value here not a fold.

RunyonAve · #8 09-14-2006, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I mostly wrote this post for myself [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I figure that writing it down will help me to remember not to do this again.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is probably why there is two flops

kurto · #9 09-14-2006, 10:52 AM

The most interesting thing about this hand is learning that being brain damaged doesn't stop one from enjoying Poker. I just hope that the villain isn't allowed to drive a car.

labrat · #10 09-14-2006, 10:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Incude pot size on all streets next time please?

Something seems wrong with stack/bet sizes, since you talk about the river bet as if its an overbet when I think it really isnt. Heres my calcs.

So you make it 30c PF, and get 3 callers, so four see the flop for 30c each making the pot on the flop $1.2.

You bet 1.5x pot, $1.8, and get 1 caller. On the turn the pot is $4.8 and you bet 3/4 ~ $3.6, and he calls, making the pot $12 on the river? You then make a $3.6 bet and he calls. Given his flop and turn play this is obv fine vs this opponent.