tough hand vs mr menlo

[aaaaaaaa]

PokerStars Game #11450442111: Tournament #57262271, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2007/08/12 - 15:32:56 (ET)
Table '57262271 16' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Rich_Fish (2174 in chips)
Seat 2: westmenloAA (18757 in chips)
Seat 3: Bjolle (8107 in chips)
Seat 4: ch0ppy (10265 in chips)
Seat 5: aaaaaaaa (12594 in chips)
Seat 6: waynecoal (12450 in chips)
Seat 7: mx4ever (13510 in chips)
Seat 8: BodogAri (16110 in chips)
Seat 9: frostey (29158 in chips)
aaaaaaaa: posts small blind 100
waynecoal: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aaaaaaaa [Qc Qs]
mx4ever: folds
BodogAri: folds
frostey: raises 400 to 600
Rich_Fish: folds
westmenloAA: raises 1200 to 1800
Bjolle: folds
ch0ppy: folds
Rich_Fish said, "like a fish on a sinking ship"
aaaaaaaa: calls 1700
waynecoal: folds
Rich_Fish said, "nh"
frostey: folds
*** FLOP *** [9c 7s 8h]
aaaaaaaa: checks
frostey said, "ty sir"
westmenloAA: checks
*** TURN *** [9c 7s 8h] [Td]
aaaaaaaa: checks
Rich_Fish said, "i play like a fish - deserve 2 go busted"
Rich_Fish said, "moron call"
westmenloAA: bets 3000
aaaaaaaa: folds

this is the 100r i have abv avg stack at the time and table is super tough i should have a super tight image as i folded 40 hands in a row.i have no reads on menlo havent been paying much attention really and no reads on initial raiser.

preflop do u like a 4 bet or a flat call?

if u like a 4 bet do u shove it in or make it 6k or something? u have to call a shove after making it 6k right?

on flop do u like a lead out or a check? i kinda just checked without even thinking bout leaidng flop.

turn is horrible i have to check right? after he leads i figure he can check flop with TT and JJ also i think he'd play ak like this a lot what do u guys think? anything else he could have here? i timed down 40 seconds after doing that its completely obv what i have so i have to fold right? if i didnt take so long would u guys call?

[the alex]

Because you're OOP, I think your PF cold-call looks stronger than a 4-bet to a 3-bet from menlo. There's enough in the pot to CR optimally to a lot of flops that I think a flop is more likely to make him hit the brakes with a range that can give you a lot of action preflop after weighing a wider range of hands that want to see 5 cards or no cards.

As for postflop, this texture's a bit nasty, but I'd still look for the CRAI here. After he checks behind, I'm c/f'ing this turn every time.

[Bakes]

i'd lead flop actually, he knows exactly what you have now, i think you have an easy muck to a raise as well, sucks to play the hand so transparently but he's never floating or shoving a worse hand imo.

[the alex]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd lead flop actually, he knows exactly what you have now, i think you have an easy muck to a raise as well, sucks to play the hand so transparently but he's never floating or shoving a worse hand imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Question: Given the stacks, what's your bet here?

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd lead flop actually, he knows exactly what you have now, i think you have an easy muck to a raise as well, sucks to play the hand so transparently but he's never floating or shoving a worse hand imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

unless you play AA the same and menlo knows this, have fun being shoved on

even if you do, this is such a very very bad flop to take that line on that *any* other one including c/f and b/c might actually be better

[Bakes]

[ QUOTE ]

unless you play AA the same and menlo knows this, have fun being shoved on

[/ QUOTE ]

"exactly what we have" meaning big pair not specifically QQ. i doubt menlo is 3betting light here, and i think he mucks JJ here. The only hand to really worry about then, is TT imo.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
i doubt menlo is 3betting light here, and i think he mucks JJ here. The only hand to really worry about then, is TT imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

a)he's 3 betting light all the time
b)if he isn't, and he mucks jacks (but shoves tens)(and he's shoving tens), this bet sucks

[Bakes]

i'm still not sold on my flop lead (c/f or c/c c/f might even be better), but i want to know how in the world you know a) to be true?

[aaaaaaaa]

i been thinking bout it and i think a shove after a few secs of thinking is best because hell prolly put me on 70% ak and 30% qq-kk-jj and call me with jj and i guess lower pairs have same exact value so idk might call lighter

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm still not sold on my flop lead (c/f or c/c c/f might even be better), but i want to know how in the world you know a) to be true?



[/ QUOTE ]

because I've played vs menlo before