FTP's New "Knockout Bounty" MTTs

[HatesLosing]

Do these tournmanets pay out every dollar that goes into them (making them promotional, in a sense), or does FTP keep part of the buy-in as an entry fee? The quote from FTP's newest press release makes it sound like they pay 100% of the money out that goes in:

"For example, a Knockout Bounty tournament with a buy-in of $24 will have $20 going to the prize pool and $4 as a bounty on each player"
--FTP

Either way, this should have a positive effect on a good player's ROI.

[BillyBizzle]

It'll prolly be the standard 24+2 type of tourney.

[Killingbird]

I'm about to play one right now. Looks like .50 goes to FTP. $4 goes to the prize pool. And $1 goes to the person who knocks you out.

[Perplexity]

[ QUOTE ]
Either way, this should have a positive effect on a good player's ROI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you claim this?

Do other people think this is true?

In a sense, this bounty is the overall payout structure of the tourney flatter, which in general would have a negative effect on good players' ROIs, right?

[Stepping Stone]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Either way, this should have a positive effect on a good player's ROI.

[/ QUOTE ]
In a sense, this bounty is the overall payout structure of the tourney flatter, which in general would have a negative effect on good players' ROIs, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
The knockout bounty seems to create two separate prize pools:
- The effective buyin for the tourney itself is the full buyin minus the typical bounty of ~20-25% of the entry fee.
- The knockout bounty then goes into a separate prize pool.

Good players should be able to exploit this dichotomy to have higher ROI on their effective tourney buy-in.

(Also, good players win more flips on average than bad players and should have a higher ROI from the knockout bounty side pool.)

[inyourface]

So basically you get a dollar back (pro-rata as you move up entry fee's) back for each player you knock out?

Sounds like fun at least but yeah the payouts will be severely flattened

[HatesLosing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Either way, this should have a positive effect on a good player's ROI.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you claim this?
Do other people think this is true?
In a sense, this bounty is the overall payout structure of the tourney flatter, which in general would have a negative effect on good players' ROIs, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly haven't thought about it or broken it down mathematically, but my initial thoughts were this:

1. This may or may not be true, as I'm going only on the FTP press release and what their release made it sound like, but it *sounds* like the tournament entry fee is smaller as a percentage of the buy-in, which leads to a higher ROI. It also *sounds* like the knockout bounty money is coming MOSTLY from the additional money that FTP would normally just keep as a tournament entry fee (is this true??). If that is true, then the prize pool is flatter, but not drastically flatter, as FTP is just taking a pay cut form the entry fees to pay for most of this.
2. Bad players will be more likely to actually let these little bounties effect their play, making a few of the bad players worse and making the tables slightly more fishy, on average, in large pots.
3. Bad players stand to knockout other players less often than good players. This is mostly due to the fact that they are often out of the tournament after the first hour, and don't even have the opportunity to knockout other players when they're on the rail. On a *per hand* basis, a bad player *might* take so many ill-concieved risks in big pots that they might knockout as many, or more, opponents as a good player. But on a *per tournament* basis, the good player knocks out far more opponents than a bad player.

Those are just my initial thoughts. Again, I don't know for sure how the entry fee / prize pool structure works, and haven't really broken it down. It just seems to me that it would have a positive impact on ROI for a good player at first glance.

[tinty]

will hill have these, called headhunters where for a $10 headhunter $5 goes in the prizepool and $5 goes on your head. when you knock someone out you bankk %75 of their head value and add %25 of it onto yours.

payouts are flatter and encourages a big loss in FE. fun but not as good as normal payouts in the long run IMO.

[Perplexity]

[ QUOTE ]
1. This may or may not be true, as I'm going only on the FTP press release and what their release made it sound like, but it *sounds* like the tournament entry fee is smaller as a percentage of the buy-in, which leads to a higher ROI. It also *sounds* like the knockout bounty money is coming MOSTLY from the additional money that FTP would normally just keep as a tournament entry fee (is this true??). If that is true, then the prize pool is flatter, but not drastically flatter, as FTP is just taking a pay cut form the entry fees to pay for most of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong on this point. The way I read it, rake is staying the same. It will still be, say, a $24 + 2 tourney. But of the $24, $20 goes to the regular prize pool, and $4 goes to the bounty.

[HatesLosing]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're wrong on this point. The way I read it, rake is staying the same. It will still be, say, a $24 + 2 tourney. But of the $24, $20 goes to the regular prize pool, and $4 goes to the bounty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be nearly as "excited" about these if that was true. Then it would seem like it would help the ROI of the weaker players, but at the same time it's hard to predict how weak the fields will be relative to "traditional" tournaments, since a prize pool that's significantly flatter tends to (IMO) attract donkeys--at least in live home games that's my experience.