Help a tournament newbie out... - Page 2

Hollywade · #11 11-14-2007, 01:57 AM

This is tough spot. It seems like a great flop for 99. I guess you pretty much have to shove. A lot of time you'll win without a challenge and once in a while you'll get called and be way behind. Not much you can do in that situation.

I like the idea of limping UTG with 99 at this stage of a tournament.

ssnyc · #12 11-14-2007, 10:27 AM

with your stack the whole line was fine...don't think we can get away from that flop with the amount we have left

1outer · #13 11-14-2007, 01:29 PM

Since you play low stakes, i am assuming the buy in to this tournament does not exceed $50. That being said, in the very early levels, looks like u were in the first level, I hate going broke in marginal spots. In these low buy-in MTT's, people will GIVE you the chips, you just hafta wait for the right spot. It also depends on what kind of player you are (accumulator/solid). If you are an accumulator and your goal was to double up in the first or 2nd level then I guess, you are going to go broke with 99 on 8 high flop. But if you are just trying to play solid and chip up without much risk, i think limping the 99 and playing for set value is definitely a good option.

Raising 99 UTG is not a bad play, it may be kind of light, but the blinds are small and you can get away cheap if there is too much action.

I don't think you can check that flop with 4 players behind, all flush draws open ended draws will prob bet out and you will prob end up raising them anyways, top pair will bet out. Most likely, overpairs to your 9's will 3bet PF, but you never know, you prob havnt been at the table long enough to make that read. What is wrong with half the pot size bet? You will get plenty of information from it and if anyone shoves, (which will prob be the only reraise made considering stack sizes). I would definitely fold and move on.

You are only getting called by better hands than yourself most of the time and if someone decides to get frisky and call with only a draw and 2 overs, you are still barely a favorite.

all in all tho, I can definitely see myself going broke here, 4 callers behind sounds like a bunch of garbage is floating around the table and my hand is best.

sapsuckah · #14 11-14-2007, 01:47 PM

Haven't read other replies yet, so forgive me if I'm repeating stuff.

1. 99 UTG can be a raise or a limp depending on table conditions and your stack. With your stack (26 BBs) I could honestly go either way but I'm leaning slightly toward limping.

3. I would think that I had the best hand here also. But I really don't want to see another card and have and A or K hit the turn. The pot is pretty close to the size of your remaining stack, so pushing here is completely reasonable.

As for your comment on betting with the best hand, much more often than not you'll find that same reasoning applies to NLHE as well.

sapsuckah · #15 11-14-2007, 01:52 PM

Wow - there's some really bad advice in this thread.

levAA · #16 11-14-2007, 01:55 PM

well played - once you get that many callers (without a reraise) and have the pot same size as your stack on the flop you are committed with your overpair.

With that many villains you could consider a c/r all-in, as you get more money in the pot, while I would never if it is likely to be checked through, as your 99 is terrible vulnerable to any turn-card.

MJBuddy · #17 11-14-2007, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow - there's some really bad advice in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Echo'ing.

The shove is fine; hands you are beating are calling you, but most importantly you can not play any turn or river card and the pot isn't small enough to let get away. Folding is folding an edge and anything other than a jam is going make you play a scary turn.

livitup · #18 11-14-2007, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The shove is fine; hands you are beating are calling you, but most importantly you can not play any turn or river card and the pot isn't small enough to let get away. Folding is folding an edge and anything other than a jam is going make you play a scary turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was basically my thought process as well, and it's good to have it validated. I figured all that were left were AK-A10 and flush hunters, and that a push would chase them all out, or at least give me 70/30 odds against someone with 4 cards to the flush. And without a re-raise before the flop I figured that's what the hands out there were playing.

What I take away from this is:

1) I like the idea of betting about half the pot as an information probe, but I don't think that would work this early in the tournament... my low-level limit cash game experience is that people will call 2 or 3 raises on a flush draw. Would 1/3 to 1/4 of their stack really be enough to make most of them fold?

2) This was at worst a marginally questionable play, and at best, the right thing to do. Maybe I'm not quite as stupid at this as I think. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks all.

hagbard celine · #19 11-14-2007, 02:37 PM

As played, the shove is fine--at these stakes you'll get called more often by A8, K8, and draws than by sets two pair or overpairs.

However, OP has a background in limit, and it should be pointed out the value of hitting sets in multi-way pots this deep.

99 is on the cusp, but middling pairs like this, this deep, can be very easy to play when you limp them in EP

halpgr · #20 11-14-2007, 02:39 PM

This whole hand is fine. Preflop raise is OK. With all the cold callers you only have about a PSB left on the flop and with an overpair you have to bet.

Since any meaningful flop bet pot commits you it was good to get it all in on the flop to maximize your FE and charge draws the most with no implied odds to suck out. If someone caught a lucky flop then good for him and tough luck for you but you can't give a free card on this flop so you want to get it all in.