Lots of action and in the Small Blind with 84s

[BenRDeemed]

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero ...

My thought process was four callers prior to the first raise is making a huge pot. By the time it gets to me there are 13 SB in the pots and &lt;2 for me to call.

If I call, I need to hit a 4 to a flush or 2-pair on the board to even have a chance (though there is a very small straight possibility as well). I am thinking with the size of the pot that I would probably Check/Call the flop if I didn't hit, so long as a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] lands on the flop. I would play agressive with two-pair or better. If nothing hits, I would probably check/fold... though I must admit that in a big pot it would be tempting to check/call the flop and plan on folding the river if I got nothing on it and check/call if I got anything.

In any case I would be thinking of folding a reraise on the flop if I didn't make a 4 to a flush or two-pair.

So with those thoughts in mind, I made my choice, which is probably obvious based on the above.

Am I thinking correctly on this or am I missing something? How would you have played this?

As to the Villians, the initial callers are typical loose players and will jump in at any potential drawing hand regardless of how weak. The pf raiser and cold-caller seem to be decent players and would probably only raise with the expected types of hands. I haven't played with any of them long enough to get a strong read, just about 5-6 rings with most.

Thanks for your time.

[kerowo]

Call, it's probably going to be 8 way to the flop. With that much money in you can call one with all sorts of draws.

[aK13]

I'm mucking.

[Xylocain]

[ QUOTE ]
Call, it's probably going to be 8 way to the flop. With that much money in you can call one with all sorts of draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you notice we're in the SB? I think I'll call one but not 11/2. Its basically a CC with the worst suited connector there is.

[bozlax]

[standard] Any reads? [/standard]

If any of the players at the table are donkish/uber-aggro types (the kind that might LRR preflop) that would push me toward a muck. If [Denny Green] they are what we think they are [/Denny], i.e. loose-passive, then you can call. If you don't really know what they are but this is the first time you've seen it go 8-handed to the flop, that pushes you toward a call (they're probably taking cards away from each other).

Basically, either folding or calling can be correct depending on the conditions at the table, and your preflop decision probably doesn't matter that much. Counting your outs and making the correct play on the flop is going to be critical. If you aren't confident in your ability to do that, muck preflop and play the hand ghost-wise, i.e. pretend you're playing to practice your skills.

[nerdking]

i'm with boz on this one. whether you call here or not is entirely dependent on your skills as a postflop player. I'm confident in my postflop game, but i'm still mucking this. We're out of position with a very very marginal cards. The chances of us hitting our straight or flush draws are worth it in terms of direct pot odds, but we also have to take into account how much money we can get out of our oppoennts versus how much money we lose if we hit AND they hit with a better hand (ie 89 on a 567 straight, A/Kxdd on a flushed board). In short, hero mucks.

[OziBattler]

dont forget that at 25/50c the SB is &lt;50% of the BB...ie 10c

I would probably muck it unless Im REALLY confident in conditions being just right as per Boz and nerds posts and I wouldnt recommend playing this hand unless hero is pretty good at postflop play.

[GLKST526]

I'm reasonably confident in my postflop game and I'd still fold. I think nerdking hit the nail right on the head, bad hand, out of position, both the straight and flush draw could easily be second best if you make it, and with the bet coming from you right, it's entirely possible it well get checked to the PFR, and they will bet, and you will have to decide if you want to call with a draw with no idea what the players will do behind you. They could easily raise and you're stuck in the middle. You really need a two pair type hand to feel comfortable, and out of the small blind, I wouldn't call here

[Bigka79]

i am mucking this hand its too easy to be dominated in every way. despite the odds its not worth playin

[BenRDeemed]

I am still learning good post-flop skills, and I may have screwed this one up post-flop, given the opportunity. But the flop came in with a "duh" flop that anyone could have played.

If I call here and hit two pair on the flop, would it be better to raise and chase away a couple of bad players (ones who should not fold in a big pot) or do a check-raise? Would that change if I hit the flush? I tend to come out aggressive in general post-flop if I hit with anything and it tends to work for me in general. (I don't consider anything to include a single pair of 8's or 4's in this case).

I agree that hitting the straight probably does not win with this many players, but that I may be forced to call down due to pot size.