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#12
11-05-2007, 02:17 AM
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Re: Raise Size
Yea turn lead is like 100% standard for any villain I've ever played. Call flop, CRAI turn. If he does check turn, bet big.
This is like the perfect board for flatting flop (I.E. you're ahead of almost any villain's range regardless of turn card/Most turn cards should not scare villain off of a hand he calls a flop shove or leads turn with). Edit: You also get flop bluff raise to lead turn x% of the time. X is 0 for calling your flop shove if he's bluffing. 
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#13
11-05-2007, 02:24 AM
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Re: Raise Size
Nicho,
Shoving/raising will "extract the maximum" against top pair hands (and hands that beat you, but I assume you are not folding this no matter what). I don't think there is much difference whether you shove or raise smaller. How often do your villains fold top pair here to a reraise/shove? You probably are not going to extract the max from second pair unless you call the flop and bet ~half pot on the turn if he checks. He may even bet the turn for you. If he has a gutshot or oesd I agree with what TNixon said--some donks will call a small raise with a gutshot. IME, however, these are not the same donks who c/r with a gutshot. They like to c/c. IME villains also do not c/r with OESD. So, I think the possibility of a draw is smaller than the possibility of top pair/2nd pair/hands that beat you. I think that the probability of a scare card coming is small (although when I run bad they always come, right?). So I think the best line is as mentioned above, call flop and shove over turn, as he is more likely to bet the turn than not (unless he had a hand that was never calling a raise/shove anyway). I won't go into scenarios with unknowns who might be weird enough to call all in with 2nd pair etc. on the flop, because you will probably get it all in at some point anyway.
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#15
11-05-2007, 05:44 AM
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Re: Raise Size
[ QUOTE ]
Then again there are a lot of morons that can't fold to flop shoves with bottom pair [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] IME villains also do not c/r with OESD. [/ QUOTE ] Then your experience is very different from mine. It's not a super-frequent thing, but definitely not rare, either.
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#16
11-05-2007, 06:15 AM
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Re: Raise Size
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Then again there are a lot of morons that can't fold to flop shoves with bottom pair [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] IME villains also do not c/r with OESD. [/ QUOTE ] Then your experience is very different from mine. It's not a super-frequent thing, but definitely not rare, either. [/ QUOTE ] Yea I also disagree with that.
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#17
11-05-2007, 07:27 AM
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Re: Raise Size NLTRN
Nm didn't realise we have posistion. I call here and let villain fire on the turn aswell
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#18
11-05-2007, 10:50 AM
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Re: Raise Size
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Then again there are a lot of morons that can't fold to flop shoves with bottom pair [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] IME villains also do not c/r with OESD. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Then your experience is very different from mine. It's not a super-frequent thing, but definitely not rare, either. [/ QUOTE ] Yea I also disagree with that. [/ QUOTE ] Cwar, I'm guessing you mean you agree with TNixon, and disagree with me that villains rarely c/r draws. Is that because villains in your higher-stakes games are more likely to c/r with oesd (!) than villains in my games? I dunno, IME villains will c/r with top pair/better hands if they are normal, 2nd pair or worse if they are aggro, but rarely with draws. Few of my villains even raise IP with draws--sometimes even combo draws. I play on UB, $50 and $100 sngs, does that make a difference?
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#19
11-05-2007, 01:27 PM
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Re: Raise Size
I don't see a point in raising unless it's a shove. A shove has the possibility of being called by a bluff buster or top pair, but I think he might get scared with just a queen. If he has two pair, you're getting stacked anyway. So, I'd probably shove if I thought the villain might call - have you been obviously aggressive? Has he caught you with air? If he doubts you're getting out of line, he's a lot less likely to call so you're better off letting him bet into you.
edit: Only a few hands in, so he doesn't really have a read on you. I'd probably call here and CRAI the turn.
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#20
11-05-2007, 01:39 PM
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Re: Raise Size
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yea turn lead is like 100% standard for any villain I've ever played. Call flop, CRAI turn. If he does check turn, bet big. [/ QUOTE ] We are in position. [/ QUOTE ] Yea I didn't mean to say CRAI, as I said "turn lead ..... for any villain" before that. Mistype.
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