Hypothetical Management Decision re: non-tipping patron of restaurant

[adsman]

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Why do people insist on trying to use $10 as a crap wage?

Even if it were the waiter/waitresses only table (which is certainly isn't), he/she would be getting paid $10/hr by a table of 6. At the same time managment is throwing them an astounding $2.13/hour.

Who's the cheapskate, again?

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Exactly.

What's fairly depressing is the sense of entitlement that a lot of the wait staff in this thread seem to have. Even if they're only clearing $10/hr after tipping everyone out that's still $10/hr that they're not likely to report so it's free and clear (to be fair I have no idea how much or often servers report taxes). So that's what, like $13/hr that the normal tax-paying sucker would have to make to be equivalent? That's a pretty good wage.

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I think a more important point is that the employer pays minimal contributions and taxes if the wait-staff have to mostly rely on tips.

[DirtyDiggs]

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You guys are all nuts. There is no way that waiting tables should be worth $20/hour.

Turning down customers for not tipping?
"Only" tipping 15% on a $500 bill is scum?

listen to yourselves, you sound ridiculous.

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Well fortunatly we live in a capitalist society, so the market gets to decide how much something is "worth," not an arbitrary decision.

I certainly don't suscribe to the the theory that the 15% situation makes them a scumbag. But I've been fortunate enough to work in places where this is a below average tip.

I made solid money, and this kept me in the business through in to graduate school. If it didn't pay as well as it did, I would have left sooner. Now you may say that there would be no difference having me wait your table vs. some 18 year old with little experience with or knowledge about your dining experience; after all their just taking an order and bringing you drinks. But evidence suggest that, ceterus paribus, consumers will choose the more polished staff.

[tuq]

ads,

No I did get that but just didn't address it head-on. Probably shouldn't have even quoted his post come to think of it.

Anyway, all in all waiting tables is becoming a pretty sweet gig what with the slow upward creep of expected tips. I spent nearly ten years in the grocery business and when I quit my top level guys were all capped at a little over $13/hour with a nominal yearly cost of living increase. They had nice benefits and vacation and all that but their W-2 was no doubt still <$30K. Their job entailed as much or more manual labor than any waiter or waitress, and they also had to deal with customers throughout the course of their day. They also frequently had to work nights, weekends, and holidays, just like servers.

If I had to do it all over again I would have left that business to wait tables in a second - the headaches are similar, the pay appears to be greater (particularly when you consider the tax reporting bit), and I could hopefully bang some hot waitresses, because everybody knows that everyone sleeps with everyone else in that business.

[offTopic]

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What's fairly infuriating is the sense of entitlement that a lot of the wait staff in this thread seem to have.

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[Swiitch]

My post wasn't solely to call management cheap. They do what they have to do to keep their businesses running. They have to pay all of the overhead, the staff, taxes, etc. I understand that their not just forking out $2.13 an hour and cackling gleefully at the gobs of money they take in. Owning a restaurant is a hard life, my wife's family used to own one, and they had to do a lot of hard things to stay in business, sometimes. (Any of the older Philly area folks might remember Greenwood Dairy)

But, for people to come here and complain that a 6-top that effectively pays the waiter $10 an hour is considered 'cheap' or 'scumbags for leaving a 15% tip', just reeks of entitlement to me. A lot of people work very, very hard for a wage that isn't much better than that, and their wages aren't multiplied by 3 or 4 tables per night.

People who don't tip well suck. Anyone who has worked in the restaurant industry knows this. But a 15% tip is not the work of a scumbag and it isn't being cheap, either.

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With all the varied experiences in this thread (owners, managers, servers, patrons, international) there seems to be very little opinion change. I've noticed that my thoughts and behavior about tipping changed dramatically on learning two things:

1. Servers get $7.50/hr base in CA (and normal min wage in AK, MN, MT, NV, OR, WA).

2. Tipping "culture" = good service is a canard. Tips as a large fraction of server income are a result of management's desire to adjust labor costs to demand. Owners get to offload some of their business risks to tipped employees. Servers are paid for taking this risk, and it's in their interest to use notions of entitlement, norms, whatever to increase their income, all of which are done more convincingly with righteousness and/or self-deception.

The situation reminds me of the long ridiculous discussion of legal and privacy protections about the receipt-checkers at Best Buy. That job exists b/c management wants to police employee-assisted fraud at the checkout and their other security procedures aren't adequate.

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They do what they have to do to keep their businesses running. They have to pay all of the overhead, the staff, taxes, etc. I understand that their not just forking out $2.13 an hour and cackling gleefully at the gobs of money they take in.

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I agree with the rest of your post, but paying 2.13 an hour isn't "what they have to do to keep their businesses running." They could easily pay more and increase the cost of the food. Instead we're left with artificially depressed food prices and are expected to fill in the gaps in pay for the employees.

[sondring]

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They do what they have to do to keep their businesses running. They have to pay all of the overhead, the staff, taxes, etc. I understand that their not just forking out $2.13 an hour and cackling gleefully at the gobs of money they take in.

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I agree with the rest of your post, but paying 2.13 an hour isn't "what they have to do to keep their businesses running." They could easily pay more and increase the cost of the food. Instead we're left with artificially depressed food prices and are expected to fill in the gaps in pay for the employees.

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And why is this a bad thing?