United States of America is about to run out of overdraft. LOL

[PLOlover]

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pro-government

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do you think it's possible to be pro-government and pro-american, in the sense of the federalist/anti-federalist papers?

[iron81]

I don't understand the question.

[tolbiny]

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That's not what that means. "full faith and credit" is government speak for "My word is my bond". Isn't your word valuable to you?

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No, that's not what they are saying. They are saying that the ability to increase their level of debt is an asset. My word is only an asset if I can keep it, it is a liability when I cannot keep it. I don't increase the value of my word by increasing the number of times I borrow money, I decrease it by making it harder to pay back my initial promises as well as the new promises.

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I don't know exactly what this means, but I don't see how you could argue that the ability to borrow $9 trillion at 4.5% in your own currency is anything but a gigantic asset.

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You borrow $100 from me, I estimate a very high chance of you paying it back.
You now borrow an additional $100 from Borodog, I have to lower my estimation that you will be able to pay it back.
PVN steps up and lends you another $100, both Boro and I lower our expectations of being paid back.
You then announce that you wish to borrow $300 more dollars, B, P and I all devalue the likely hood of you paying us back further. This is what raising the cap is, the government is saying that it INTENDS to borrow more than 9 trillion, not that banks/individuals/foreign governments want to LEND us more money.

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I want to clarify a bit more on this subject. The US government is going to increase its debt level in an effort to pay off current expenses/obligations. In no situation readily imaginable would this be considered a positive for the credit worthiness of the borrower. These actions can only realistically be viewed as harming the "full faith and credit" of the US Gov, and yet the person quoted is trying to sell it as increasing the value of an asset. It is rediculous circular speaking.

"we need to borrow more money to pay of the money we owe now, or else we won't be able to borrow more money so that we can continue paying our debts with borrowed cash"

[PLOlover]

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I don't understand the question.

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well the founding fathers viewed govenment as dangerous and a necessary evil.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

It would be nice to take away congress's credit card.
No more social security, no more medicare, no more medicaid. We revert back to the policies of 1776. If you have a sick relative, the family come together and takes care of them. No more govt intervention.....

People will wake up a realize all this money was stolen by our elected politicians and spent on pork projects. The system is bankrupt. Continuing to borrow money is only delaying the inevitable.

Personally, I think we should seize the assets of people like Ted Kennedy and use his money to pay back the American people.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be nice to take away congress's credit card.
No more social security, no more medicare, no more medicaid. We revert back to the policies of 1776. If you have a sick relative, the family come together and takes care of them. No more govt intervention.....

People will wake up a realize all this money was stolen by our elected politicians and spent on pork projects. The system is bankrupt. Continuing to borrow money is only delaying the inevitable.

Personally, I think we should seize the assets of people like Ted Kennedy and use his money to pay back the American people.

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Aren't you the guy that thinks government intervention is infallible as long as it's foreign?

[Low Key]

Is this one of those things that could help devalue the dollar?

Also, I've tried the whole borrowing money to pay back borrowed money, only in the form of credit card transfers. I don't recommend it. Someone should just tear up that "You've been preapproved for over $9 trillion!" Master Card offer the US just got..

[morphball]

Full faith and credit...

It's close to certain that the government will not be able to meet all of its obligations if things continue on their present course.

They will pay the coupons on bonds, but the other stuff they will do is:

1. Degrade the currency so payments are easier to make and the lenders get screwed - i.e., a dollar crash which may have already started

2. Cut back on obligations to its citizens like social security.

Now the government can always raise income taxes right? Wrong, the country has a negative savings rate at the moment, which means that our future gross domestic income can expect to be lower.

Good game they have been playing with our country, no?

[owsley]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be nice to take away congress's credit card.
No more social security, no more medicare, no more medicaid. We revert back to the policies of 1776. If you have a sick relative, the family come together and takes care of them. No more govt intervention.....

People will wake up a realize all this money was stolen by our elected politicians and spent on pork projects. The system is bankrupt. Continuing to borrow money is only delaying the inevitable.

Personally, I think we should seize the assets of people like Ted Kennedy and use his money to pay back the American people.

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is this supposed to be a neoconservative equivalent of nielsos "centralized power in europe???? do you realize that is what HITLER wanted!!?1?" comments? you two are probably related somehow

[Felix_Nietzsche]

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Aren't you the guy that thinks government intervention is infallible as long as it's foreign?

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Domestic: Little govt intervention with low taxes (Thomas Jefferson was my ideal president)
Foreign: Ruthless over-the-top gunboat diplomacy to our enemies.