$60 - one issue I have with the AK "curtains call"

suzzer99 · #1 08-06-2006, 03:44 AM

(I'm not sure if I made that term up, but I'm doing my damdest to popularize it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1530)
Hero (t1500)
MP3 (t1480)
CO (t1460)
Button (t1550)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is in MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises to t40, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls t40, MP3 raises to t120, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls t80

Flop: (t310) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets t100, Hero calls t100

Turn: (t510) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks

River: (t510) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks

Hero has Kc, Ad (a pair of Threes)
MP3 has Ac, Kd (a pair of Threes)

The biggest problem I have with calling a preflop raise cold with AK, is it seems like and A or K flops about 10% of the time. Which could very well be because villain has one of each a large % of the time. I knew that's what this guy had. But if he knew how to c-bet he could have pretty easily pushed me off the hand, with AQ or less even obviously.

Seems to me like the AK cold caller get's the shaft a large % of the time. And if you're still at a level where a lot of donks are willing to get all their chips in with AQ early, maybe reraising makes a little more sense as a standard line.

Thoughts?

Oh yeah, and I know I shouldn't have smoothcalled the minraise. Brainfart.

AMT · #2 08-06-2006, 03:52 AM

i think an argument for cold calling is the fact that as you mentioned, you dont seem to hit AK a lot, but when you do, you often can/will play a big pot. ive found in lower limits that i can play AK as cheaply as id like preflop and still stack villains if i hit the flop. this is a win/win IMO, especially when reraising AK preflop only results in having to give up a bigger pot when you whiff and a c-bet doesnt work. im often more apt to reraise in position....

tubasteve · #3 08-06-2006, 03:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
is it seems like and A or K flops about 10% of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? I thought one of the most commonly known odds/statistic was that unpaired cards are ~35% to pair on the flop.

Cowy · #4 08-06-2006, 03:55 AM

Personally, I don't think you can play AK aggressively OOP when you don't hit the flop[at a full table]. However, his c-bet was quite small, combined with his check on the turn leads me to believe you could have 'stolen' the pot on the river.

Newt_Buggs · #5 08-06-2006, 04:19 AM

I would definitely reraise the miniraise preflop. I don't remember the article but I'm guessing that curtains recommended just calling raises with AK in spots where your opponent can reraise all in and push you off of it. This is not a problem here. You are way ahead of the average players hand range and most players are loose enough that a reraise will still get plenty of action by non premium hands

suzzer99 · #6 08-06-2006, 04:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is it seems like and A or K flops about 10% of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? I thought one of the most commonly known odds/statistic was that unpaired cards are ~35% to pair on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if your opponent also has AK.

suzzer99 · #7 08-06-2006, 04:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would definitely reraise the miniraise preflop. I don't remember the article but I'm guessing that curtains recommended just calling raises with AK in spots where your opponent can reraise all in and push you off of it. This is not a problem here. You are way ahead of the average players hand range and most players are loose enough that a reraise will still get plenty of action by non premium hands

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking about the minraiser, I'm talking about raiser #2. Or let's just assume it's a normal hand where an unknown has raised 3-4BB into you and you have AKo, w/o a bunch of limpers, or the potential for a bunch of limpers.

ryanghall · #8 08-06-2006, 06:24 AM

Suzzer, I *usually* just smoothcall raises w/ AK early in SNG. Reraising is bad cause you have to fold to a push (which could be a pair) and, like you say, you'll usually miss. Keep the pot small until you have something.

ryan

Freudian · #9 08-06-2006, 07:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is it seems like and A or K flops about 10% of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? I thought one of the most commonly known odds/statistic was that unpaired cards are ~35% to pair on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if your opponent also has AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you know that your opponent has AK it is pretty safe to call preflop with your AK. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Phill] · #10 08-06-2006, 08:49 AM

I missed the origional post on this, but early on ill call solid raises 80% of the time with AK and AQ (edit-whilst its in the early levels still). Ive been doing this for years.

With the OP hand, i think id be making it part of the 20% club and repopping. Cold calling min raisers sucks. Make the proper raise.