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#1
10-10-2007, 05:05 PM
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pls check my thinking here - NL50
villain is 25/16, hasn't been out of line
Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players LegoPoker Hand History Converter BB: $50 UTG: $18.35 Hero (CO): $58.40 BTN: $50.70 SB: $41.35 Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO) UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50 Flop: ($6) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players) <font color="red">SB bets $0.50</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $4</font>, Hero calls $4, SB folds Turn: ($14.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $11</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $27.50</font> SB is a huge fish, and loves to make these little donk bets with air. especially when i'm in the hand, as i've been active and raising a lot of hands in position. i called the flop raise for two reasons. one, BB knows SB donk bets are crap and could certainly be looking to take the pot with overs, fd, 88, etc. two, he's likely to consider my call to be quite strong, and i can likely get to a cheap showdown or obv muck to a turn bet unless i improve. well, i improve on the turn. when i see that card, my instinct is "i want to put all my $ in here". do you agree with that, or should i be proceeding cautiously here? ok, so if i decide i want to play for stacks, i'm prepared to call if he crai. but wtf, his c/r is really small. wasn't expecting that. that looks really strong. should i abandon my previous planning and muck? 
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#2
10-10-2007, 05:55 PM
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Re: pls check my thinking here - NL50
I'm not a fan of your flop call, unless you know BB well and can read his lines decently. He might be raising lightly to isolate the donk / take the pot down, but this is generically less likely when the pre-flop raiser (you) is behind him and yet to act. In that situation, his range for raising will tend to be stronger, say, good top pairs or better, some combo draws, maybe a pair+str8-draw. Your hand is not doing too well against that range, and there are a lot of turn cards you're not going to like, let alone river cards. The only really good thing you have going for you is position. I don't think it's quite enough here, unless you have a favorable read on BB (e.g. the type to raise with a naked FD or 88 here even when sandwiched multiway.)
As played, you called to see a turn, and the best possible card fell. I think that at this point it's really hard to get away, though BB's check-min raise looks so strong that I don't mind a fold here, but can't really fault a call turn/call river line, or simply a turn shove. Again, reads on the BB would help. P.S. When you bet $11 on the turn, you crossed what some have called the commitment threshold (investing => 1/5 of your pf effective stack), so theoretically you were betting $11 looking to get it in and should not fold.
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#4
10-10-2007, 06:14 PM
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Re: pls check my thinking here - NL50
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 13$ to go on the flop [/ QUOTE ] i don't like this for a couple reasons. i feel that even if i have his hand beat, he's likely to call that raise with a big chunk of his range. now i will have built a decent sized pot and i'm going to have tougher decisions the rest of the way. also, when i have combo draws in his spot, i'd much prefer the villain to raise here than to just call. JsTs can just push over the top here and be pretty happy about it. by not raising, i put that kind of draw in a tough spot on the turn, and he'll probably just check/call the turn unless he hits. calling also gives me a chance to catch up when i'm behind to an overpair or something, whereas that hand will push over the top of a flop raise pretty often. the call is definitely thin, but i think i like calling better than raising.
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#5
10-10-2007, 06:41 PM
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Re: pls check my thinking here - NL50
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 13$ to go on the flop [/ QUOTE ] This is bad as we either get pot-stuck to a better hand or stack off seriously light against a strong combo draw. I'm fine with folding the flop, but if I call its to spike a J or a 9, so the turn stack-off for me is standard. He has a set a lot of the time here (which has just boated) but if you dont want to get it in when your gin card hits, then fold the flop.
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#6
10-10-2007, 06:44 PM
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Re: pls check my thinking here - NL50
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I make it 13$ to go on the flop [/ QUOTE ] This is bad as we either get pot-stuck to a better hand or stack off seriously light against a strong combo draw. I'm fine with folding the flop, but if I call its to spike a J or a 9, so the turn stack-off for me is standard. He has a set a lot of the time here (which has just boated) but if you dont want to get it in when your gin card hits, then fold the flop. [/ QUOTE ] this is basically my thinking, just wanted to check to make sure it was solid, and also to make sure that the turn check/minraise isn't enough to warrant abandoning this plan.
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#7
10-10-2007, 06:46 PM
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Re: pls check my thinking here - NL50
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I make it 13$ to go on the flop [/ QUOTE ] This is bad as we either get pot-stuck to a better hand or stack off seriously light against a strong combo draw. I'm fine with folding the flop, but if I call its to spike a J or a 9, so the turn stack-off for me is standard. He has a set a lot of the time here (which has just boated) but if you dont want to get it in when your gin card hits, then fold the flop. [/ QUOTE ] this is basically my thinking, just wanted to check to make sure it was solid, and also to make sure that the turn check/minraise isn't enough to warrant abandoning this plan. [/ QUOTE ] If you resolve to put all your money in on the turn it doesnt matter how it gets there. If you're worried on the flop, check the turn through, and call the river. Either stack off, or dont.
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