TCU OWNS the Big 12...

[SammyKid11]

They're sick of the disrespect. They're sick of being treated like a second-class program. The Horned Frogs are 4-0 against the Big 12 over the last two seasons, including wins at #5 Oklahoma, vs. #22 Texas Tech, a bowl win against an Iowa State team who would've won the Big 12 North if not for injuries, and at Baylor (who is fighting their way back to respectability).

And tonight, they took the Red Raiders offense back to the dark ages. It's been 74 games since Tech last scored as little as 3 points. Mike Leach was in his first season. This is the team that's led the league in passing offense each of the last two seasons...and they managed one field goal. If TCU's QB Jeff Ballard hadn't had one of the worst games of his career tonight overthrowing receivers, the Frogs would have beaten Tech by 20-30 points.

So I hereby declare TCU the second best team in the Big 12. Too bad they have to play in the Mountain West...there are a LOT of "major" conference members around the country who ain't got [censored] on the Frogs.

Is ANYONE willing to admit this is a serious-level program deserving of national attention? Where are you, Tech fans?

Edit to Add: Frogs are also sporting the nation's longest active winning streak at 13 games.....and counting. Go Frogs!!!!!

[lastchance]

One year and a game does not a program make. They were very good last year though, let's see if they can follow it up.

[SammyKid11]

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One year and a game does not a program make.

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2000: 10-2, WAC Champions, one drive from BCS, Doak Walker Award winner
2002: 10-2, C-USA Champions, Liberty Bowl Winner
2003: 11-2, one drive away from BCS
2005: 11-1, upset OU in Norman, MWC Champions
2006: 3-0, allowed 10 total points to TWO Big 12 teams, including powerhouse offense Texas Tech

One year and a game, huh? Thanks for not paying attention.

[lastchance]

Ok, one year and three games does not a program make. I'll give you 2000, but that was a long time ago.

2002: Losing to Cincinatti and East Carolina does not inspire confidence. Being the best team in C-USA does not exactly mean that you are a good program.

2003: They played UAB close. They played Louisville close. They played South Florida close. They played Tulane close. They played Arizona close. Good teams don't play crappy teams close, they take them out to the woodshed and beat them up. They were bound to lose a game, because they simply weren't that good.

In 2005, the Southern Methodist loss was pretty bad, and they did go down to the wire against Brigham Young and Utah. That said, the Oklahoma and ISU wins were impressive, to say the least, so I'll give you that one.

[tdarko]

Sammy,

Let's get a tad of perspective here. I respect TCU and how well they play and dominate their conference as well as compete against anyone in the country...no denying this. But let's talk about these 4 games:

#5 OK- This was the first game of the year for OU with and with a first time QB, a guy that was playing WR the very next game b/c HE WAS THAT TERRIBLE. Rhett Bomar starts this game it may be a different story but I don't go by "what if's" so good win TCU you guys really handed it to a great team. Let me ask you one thing though, go back through OU's season last year, can you honestly tell me that the team TCU played in Week 1 was the same as the one in Week 2, or Week 3, or Week 4, and so on and so on until the last game of the year when they beat an excellent Oregon team in the Holiday Bowl? It is even my own personal opinion that Paul Thompson shouldn't be starting this year even and that their big freshman recruit (who is v. good) should get every snap this year.

#22 TT- They simply aren't the same team as of the years past. They beat up on maybe the worst D1 program in the state of Texas in week 1 (SMU) 35-3 but if you think about it, last year and the year before this was a game in which they would have approached the century mark in points and there would have been a thread about why Leach is an [censored] for running up the score blah blah blah. 35-3 is a poor performance against a team like SMU or a Sam Houston State or Texas State...they are all the same. Week two they played a very good second tier D1 school, UTEP. Great program and a tough game knowingly going in but 38-35??? WTF? This TT team just isn't as good as they were in the past, they have always scheduled games early in their schedule in the past in which they could run up the score and then lead the nation in points scored, total offense etc. but they just can't do it anymore...then facing a good team like TCU shows every hole they really have.

Iowa State- "bowl win against an Iowa State team who would've won the Big 12 North if not for injuries"--huh? Winning the North almost doesn't mean anything the last few years, that says a lot coming from a person that went to Nebraska. It is sad considering that the North used to be so strong but there wasn't a good team in that division last year until Nebraska started to come on late, but they didn't have the firepower to come from behind and tied with most of the division for second even though winning more overall games than the rest. To be honest, probably the worst team or the coldest team represented the North in 05', Colorado was terrible at the end of the year. Mainly, that conference was just bad and to brag about beating a 7-5 team from that conference is bad.

Baylor- They aren't returning to anything, especially respectability. Beating this team is expected, the Big XII should just drop them anyway...why even mention this win?

TCU doesn't own the big XII until they go into College Station and win a big game there or beat UT anywhere etc.

[Assani Fisher]

I've tried a few forms of karate, but I've never really had the discipline to stick with one. I did wrestling in high school, so I've always kinda liked the ground based martial arts more.

[SammyKid11]

I respect your sports opinions for the most part...and you had some decent things to say in your post. But this...

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TCU doesn't own the big XII until they go into College Station and win a big game there or beat UT anywhere etc.

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...is ridiculous. TCU went to NORMAN and won a big game there...OU >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> > Texas A&M. And TCU keeps beating everyone in the Big 12 who will schedule them. They FINALLY got Texas to agree to play them next year. It's unfortunate that the Frogs will have the brand new QB while Colt McCoy will already have a year under his belt. But if they find a way to win that game anyway, in Austin (cause of course UT wouldn't give us a home-and-home, just one game in Austin)...then at that point, they do OFFICIALLY own the Big 12.

As it stands, yeah - maybe Tech isn't as good as they've been in years past. At this stage it's hard to tell how much is Tech's offense not being as great and how much is TCU's defense being really good. But why try to take things away from them? They went into Norman last year, beat a top 5 team at their place...the first September loss of Stoops' career at OU and only the second home loss of the Stoops era. That's a big deal...were they as good as they were at the end of the season? No. But neither was TCU (they got WAY better the moment Jeff Ballard took over for Tye Gunn at quarterback).....so what's your point?

The Tech game...first time in 6 years they've been held to such few points. Texas's D hasn't held them down like that, nor A&M's, nor Oklahoma's or Colorado's or Nebraska's...maybe they'll prove to be a really bad offense this year and those schools will all have success stopping them just like TCU did. But until they do, why knock down the achievement?

We're damned if we do here...if TCFuckinU stops someone or shuts them down -- it MUST be because that team just isn't very good...and even if that team does good things at other times in the season (like OU beating Oregon), it's "well, they weren't very good WHEN they played TCU." This is exactly the disrespect Gary Patterson's talking about and getting sick of...I think rightfully so. I realize I'm a fan and I'm biased. Such is life.

Baylor...last year was their best since joining the Big 12. I think this season will eclipse that, but I could be dead wrong. I think they're not quite the laughingstock they used to be...that's how I should have put it. They just happen to be the fourth Big 12 team we've beaten over the last two years.

ISU...no, not a GREAT team (but I never claimed that they were). Just a team that easily could have won a division in a BCS conference...albeit a weak division.

The point is...TCU never seems to earn any respect. Year after year they drop 15 spots in the rankings just for HAVING an offseason, people continually doubt them and treat them like a second-tier program...when in actuality they are better than most "big conference" programs year in and year out over the last 8 years (since the beginning of the Franchione-Patterson era).

[dkgojackets]

For a mid-major to earn respectablity, you can't lose to second-rate teams every year. Finish undefeated, beating all of the teams you are supposed to, and then you'll get respect.

[tdarko]

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TCU went to NORMAN and won a big game there...OU >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> > Texas A&M.

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OU is better than A&M but winning IN COLLEGE STATION is tough no matter what year and what A&M team is on the field, the good the bad or the great. That is a damn tough place to walk into and win, this is why I said go to their place and beat them...notice I said UT anywhere.

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As it stands, yeah - maybe Tech isn't as good as they've been in years past. At this stage it's hard to tell how much is Tech's offense not being as great and how much is TCU's defense being really good. But why try to take things away from them? They went into Norman last year, beat a top 5 team at their place...the first September loss of Stoops' career at OU and only the second home loss of the Stoops era. That's a big deal...were they as good as they were at the end of the season? No. But neither was TCU (they got WAY better the moment Jeff Ballard took over for Tye Gunn at quarterback).....so what's your point?

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My point? There is a reason that OU went from being a preseason top 5 ranking to slippin all the way down to where TCU is when Bomar was kicked off the team. Bomar is better than any QB at TCU, please don't homer up this thread and think otherwise. By the end of the season OU was a top 10 team in the country (more like 9 or 10) and TCU just wasn't and isn't.

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The Tech game...first time in 6 years they've been held to such few points. Texas's D hasn't held them down like that, nor A&M's, nor Oklahoma's or Colorado's or Nebraska's...maybe they'll prove to be a really bad offense this year and those schools will all have success stopping them just like TCU did. But until they do, why knock down the achievement?

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Why are you so worried about a score, especially when nobody else has even played them this year? This is so weird. TCU won, they are better, do they own the Big XII b/c they beat a downgraded team that was already one dimensional to begin with? No chance. Just so you know, Texas Tech may be the all-time most OVER-RATED team to ever step on a football field.

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We're damned if we do here...if TCFuckinU stops someone or shuts them down -- it MUST be because that team just isn't very good...and even if that team does good things at other times in the season (like OU beating Oregon), it's "well, they weren't very good WHEN they played TCU." This is exactly the disrespect Gary Patterson's talking about and getting sick of...I think rightfully so. I realize I'm a fan and I'm biased. Such is life.

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You're not damned if you do here, well not with me. Just don't beat TT, Baylor, ISU, and squeek by OU while they are at their weakest and most frazzled in nearly a decade and claim that you own the Big XII. That is just weird.

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Baylor...last year was their best since joining the Big 12. I think this season will eclipse that, but I could be dead wrong. I think they're not quite the laughingstock they used to be...that's how I should have put it. They just happen to be the fourth Big 12 team we've beaten over the last two years.

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If they tied their shoes correctly last year it would have been their best year since joining the Big XII, who cares? They are horrendous. When they win a game Waco shuts down and two-steps the night away because they know it doesn't happen too often, that isn't really the sign of a team you should be proud of to beat.

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The point is...TCU never seems to earn any respect. Year after year they drop 15 spots in the rankings just for HAVING an offseason, people continually doubt them and treat them like a second-tier program...when in actuality they are better than most "big conference" programs year in and year out over the last 8 years (since the beginning of the Franchione-Patterson era).

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If anyone has had the right to complain in the past about respect b/c of not being in a "big conference" in accordance to rankings, BCS, bowl games, etc. it is West Virginia and maybe them and/or Louisville this year. TCU came close that one year but didn't they lose to SMU and it ruined their perfect season? This was a few years back, I remember this b/c it was a WV-like season in which there was discussion whether or not if they would get the title game if they had gone undefeated--which they probably wouldn't have been rewarded.

You say they are better than most big conference programs, well yeah some years they are but that isn't saying much considering the worst teams in each conference aren't any good and TCU is, what is the point of this comment? You put TCU in the Big XII and I would say they finish 4th in the Big XII South. You will disagree with this wholeheartedly but there is a big difference in playing one Big XII team a year (maybe 2) and facing a grind every single saturday. I actually wish they would get Baylor the [censored] out of the Big XII and put TCU in there to beef it up, b/c in my eyes the Big XII isn't as strong as many of the other conferences.

[BigSoonerFan]

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One year and a game does not a program make.

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2000: 10-2, WAC Champions, one drive from BCS, Doak Walker Award winner
2002: 10-2, C-USA Champions, Liberty Bowl Winner
2003: 11-2, one drive away from BCS
2005: 11-1, upset OU in Norman, MWC Champions
2006: 3-0, allowed 10 total points to TWO Big 12 teams, including powerhouse offense Texas Tech

One year and a game, huh? Thanks for not paying attention.

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Despite the fact that they got their butts kicked by BYU, why did you fail to mention the 5-6 in 2004 (losing to the Big 12 Texas Tech team) and the 6-6 in 2001 (losing to two Big 12 teams)?