5CD: I'm uncomfortable the amount of uncalled bets i make post-draw

[Big Limpin]

Is this common? You feel like alot of your bets 'only get called by better hands' or close to it. Like you know he had to improve to beat you. He checks. You bet? I'm frequently amazed by the unimproved pair that calls me, but i'm not sure if this is happening enough to justify my bet (when we both miss, and he checks to me). Really, they foldl at least half the time, and i get checkraised once in a while. I'm pretty good about dropping my hand, but its still 1 big bet i'd save checking behind.

Do i really need to be pushing for value from anyone i mark as the least bit of a calling station? I experimented with always checking behind when my big PP didnt improve and they drew 3 cards. I played break even poker that evening, and ran good at that, so i think that was overkill. Anyone here always continuation bet when checked to?

I just feel like too many rivers are going them-check, me-bet, them-fold. When they do call, they beat me some of the time, lose some of the time too. I'm not so sure that extra bet is a profitable one for me.

Whats your philosophys? Push aggro here, improves your image, getting more calls on other hands (yr monsters get paid more)...Or keep varience down and check behind most of the time unimproved, with side benefit that they might notice thsi and have to always lead out when they improve.

Limpin'

[Murakawa]

It's really frustrating when you get outdrawn six times in a row. You know you did everything right and you know you could have checked down or check called. But don't let it discourage you.

Consider: How many players left to act

I don't like to bet into three players without aces up, but that's just me. Against one I'll even bet jacks up.

Consider: How many cards did they draw?
2 pair before the draw is good, but if the other hand improves at all it'll beat you because most players won't have less than jacks they're drawing with. If they drew 1, though, your two pair may be good. But if they raised check call in case they have trips, and if you have low 2 pair get out of the hand.

Bet into people with : Queens up. watch them call down with lower 2 pair. Many will just fold with low trips. You can fold with a reraise but ought not to because a few players reraise a bed PD when they think it is a bluff when they too have nothing, often making a semibluff fold to a bluff.

Consider what kind of table you are at. Is it tight? Of course, KEEP NOTES, because people will almost always do the same thing like they're looking a chart. Even if someone draws three at a tight table to your raise, you know he has aces.

Can you induce a bluff?

Will you be called by anything you can beat?

If you're not caught bluffing then you're no bluffing enough, if you don't catch bluffing then you're not trying enough.

I usually wait to see a person bet into my twice after drawing 3 before I see what they got. I also need at least Aces...

Then I take notes.

Remember a bluff is a bet made becaues the player doens't think they can win with a showdown. betting with AA PD is either a value bet or a semi bluff against low 2 pair. IS this a bluff you're against, or value bet? What kind of player would bluff, is this that kind of player?

Finally:::::


This is a theory thing. Think about the size of the pot! If there are 3 people who called a raise and all drew 3 or 1 to a come draw, 1st to act opens post draw, they all fold to you... it's a big pot. Worth a call if you think its a bluff (though he might not bet into so many people without hand...).

HU SB vs BB who cares? Small pot@


Also... think of pot odds. If you call the raise, you're risking 1 bet to win X bets ( like 5) if you win, but if you lose you only lose one bet. You're not losing 5 bets everytime you fold, but you limit yourself to losing 1 if you call. The showdown is for the whole pot, not the 1 last bet.

Can't wait for hand histories...


oh yeah I know I said it but

KEEP GOOD NOTES

Oh yes, also many players think late position means they can bet. Other players know that an early position raise adds strength to a hand. Think about how this player thinks, which type is he?

You'll actually make a lot of money from calling down at the right times. You'll break even from raising in the right positions, you'll make money from knowing when to call down, when to bet out, and what the heck to do with 2 pair.

Limpin- you want to tape your play I should watch it?

[Big Limpin]

You rock. Keep these great responses coming.
[ QUOTE ]
Limpin- you want to tape your play I should watch it?


[/ QUOTE ]
totally! i need feedback before my habits get too ingrained. draw should be good to tape, becasue i 1-table it, so can give audio over, in a little depth. I'm having a diologue with myself during the hand, might as well spit it into a headset.

What program/format is best to use?

[Big Limpin]

Maurakawa,
can you give a second reply, more about when to make the close post-flop bet, and less on calling standards? As in-depth as the first reply would be awesome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] What i was talking about was mostly, me making the bet, him folding usually.
An example: i raise KK from EP/CO/Button, only call is the BB. Who draws 3. I draw 3. He checks. I put him on an unimproved pair; he could have A high, 44, KK, or 2pr/trips (assume hes donk). Do I bet or check?

This guy could well call me with any pair (pot lays him 3:1), or he could know hes beat and fold his pair. He probably just calls me when he's improved to 2pr, if he checkraises i drop.

Again: Hero JJ88-utg pre, raise. Button calls, all fold. I draw 1, him 3. Any point leading? What about if i have KK22 instead? AA-?

Your advice is great answer for wrong question. Reread my OP , a 2nd reply from perspective of when hero knows he was ahead pre- and the villain had to improve...does villain (donk) call enough value bets when i miss too?

*More often than not, hero has position on villain. Alot of villains "hits", he leads out, therefore its that much less likely he has strong hand. So i dont feel like i'm losing a bet all that often...but so many are uncalled, seems risky. Then again, they cant make a bad call unless i make the bet...

[Big Limpin]

Another one that bugs me is when theres one dude limps, who limps alot, and all fold to my BB, and i pop it. i draw 3, he draws 3. So the pots 2 big bets.

I feel uncomfortable when i check (i look weak, so he'll bet more than his fair share of 29% that he overtook AA)...so now im guessing what to pick off? I'm offered 3:1.

And if lead unimproved, he often folds. If he raises, its not a bluff in my games, and i can fold. Unless he keeps doing it! But , he'll flat call alot when he beat me, and just takes my bet either way. Rare would my bet make 3322 fold [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] so theres no element of bluff to my bet, and i only win this pot 70% of the time....and i take it anyways most of the time. How likely does his call have to be then, to bet? Take Notes! Take Notes! Is there meta-game value of just being the guy betting here (cause i usually got a good starting hand); being the bully, he vows to look me up next hand, and next time i have AAA. I hate that when i never lead after raising pre, then when i DO (spike a hand)...they drop.

Would betting even a slightly losing bet here might be ok if it gets me more calls next time?

Too bad the turnover is immense in my game, the best notes are on fishies who never reload/return [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]