55k bubble: KQ utg multiway

future · #1 06-10-2006, 02:05 AM

why do i always [censored] away my whole stack? I have to fold this right?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (8 handed) CP hand converter

UTG+1 (t68528)
MP1 (t201916)
MP2 (t68646)
CO (t39928)
Button (t131350)
SB (t104219)
BB (t29947)
Hero (t93941)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t9000, UTG+1 calls t9000, MP1 calls t9000, 4 folds, BB calls t6000.

Flop: (t34050) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t20000, UTG+1 raises to t40000, MP1 folds, BB folds, Hero raises to t75000, UTG+1 calls t19378 (All-In).

Turn: (t168428) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t168428) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t168428

NYWalker · #2 06-10-2006, 02:52 AM

I'm not a good player, just playing poker tournament as hobby. If my comment is too "junior", just move on.

First, UTG I wouldn't raise with KQo. Limping and try to see a cheap flop, leaves room for cheap exit. For this flop, assme I limped in, I would check and fold to large bet.

In this case, I would put UTG+1 on a set. Small flush or nut flush draw are also possible. Too much risk for whole stack or 68K to backup just one pair, though it's top pair.

GBP04 · #3 06-10-2006, 02:56 AM

playing this UTG is crazy

future · #4 06-10-2006, 03:06 AM

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playing this UTG is crazy

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How's it "crazy"? What's your range utg then at this level? And if it were AK no club you would play the hand allin? I don't really think KQ is that bad late in the tournament; nobody smooth calls preflop with AK or even AQ this late. If I get reraised preflop I'm done.

FortunaMaximus · #5 06-10-2006, 03:16 AM

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playing this UTG is crazy

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How's it "crazy"? What's your range utg then at this level? And if it were AK no club you would play the hand allin? I don't really think KQ is that bad late in the tournament; nobody smooth calls preflop with AK or even AQ this late. If I get reraised preflop I'm done.

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Why even play it for a raise then? Late in a tournament, you have to pick your spots. UTG aggression is a recipe for disaster with a marginal hand. My UTG range here would be TT+, AQs, AK. I'm never limping UTG. You just set yourself up for difficult decisions on the flop and later streets, and if you show any weakness at all OOP, a thinking opponent's gonna scoop up the pot.

future · #6 06-10-2006, 03:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
playing this UTG is crazy

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How's it "crazy"? What's your range utg then at this level? And if it were AK no club you would play the hand allin? I don't really think KQ is that bad late in the tournament; nobody smooth calls preflop with AK or even AQ this late. If I get reraised preflop I'm done.

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Why even play it for a raise then? Late in a tournament, you have to pick your spots. UTG aggression is a recipe for disaster with a marginal hand. My UTG range here would be TT+, AQs, AK. I'm never limping UTG. You just set yourself up for difficult decisions on the flop and later streets, and if you show any weakness at all OOP, a thinking opponent's gonna scoop up the pot.

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If I'm raising utg it almost doesn't matter what I have. They assume my range is very tight utg. You think people are going to float flops and take it away from you on the turn with nothing with their whole stack at risk? And the play rarely goes beyond the flop at this point.

FortunaMaximus · #7 06-10-2006, 03:30 AM

Rarely. You just chose a flop multi-way to try to bring your argument that's a mono flop. First to act multi-way with a UTG+1 cold caller and a MP1, ditto. This should worry you even preflop. As played, OK. The flop's horrible. You got minraised. MP1's probably hoping for you to push over here, and you can be sure he's not too worried about the mono flop. He probably loves it.

Yes, the metagame considerations of postflop play's fine. But in a 4-way hand with a mono flop, you'll get action and you won't like the action, most of the time. Counting on them to assume your range's ubertight may not be horrible. This isn't gonna help you if they flop strong, and you'll be OOP. You can pick better spots.

NYWalker · #8 06-10-2006, 03:39 AM

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If I'm raising utg it almost doesn't matter what I have. They assume my range is very tight utg.

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They assume your range is very tight utg, when they called you, you are beaten, right?. Remember the GAP concept? Assume they put you in AK or TT, their raise on the flop indicated more strength than your hand.

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Here is one hand I played at WPT mandalay bay, level 5 600/300 ante 75. I was UTG 10500, looked dowan AKo. Table was very loose and aggressive. BB was small stack 6500 desperate. SB very loose and aggressive 30000. I limped in (bad play), all folded to SB who completed, BB checked. Flop 835 all club. (I had no club), all checked to me. Turn King of spade, SB bet 800, BB moved all-in for 6500. I folded my AKo. I was probably too tight, but I think it was a good lay down. Should I pushed AKo preflop, I may picked 1550 uncontested, I may ran into BB's 10J club which flopped a flush. Anyway, I would play UTG very tight in late tournament.

cocofrite · #9 06-10-2006, 06:52 AM

I think raising kq utg on the bubble is cool, maybe you should raise a bit less as a min raise will be as much frightening (maybe more) and will leave you room for a fold (because you have to fold if anyone reraises).

When you bet flop, utg+1 raises you, what do you put him on, a semi bluff with two to act behind him ? kj ?
No way.
If all folded to bb who raised, the decision would be tougher, but this is an easy one.
Fold.