$100: 44787 -he raise/cbet/ck/shove, i call TT- Heroic or horrendous?

Scotty_12 · #1 11-22-2007, 04:15 AM

First time seeing villian. I sometimes raise pf here, and sometimes limp. With the donk cbet, I put him on AK (LOL!) and felt he would try to squeeze value out of a boat here but may be donk betting ace high. I try to not stack off light in the early levels, and this is a rare example of me being curious and trying this kind of junk vs an unknown. Was I trying to be too much of a Kenny tran? His hand could also look like 88 or A7 if I put some time into it, but like I said earlier i think he vbets A7 smaller if he is a thinking player, since my line was so passive. Anyone else who is insanely overrolled for their games look him up here due to boredom or curiosity?

Edit: His hand was NOT 88, but when I posted this it made me think it can really look like it - although his ability to size his bet properly preflop and then stupidly on the flop makes me want to look him up so much more.

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t30/t60
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t2060
UTG+1: t1900
UTG+2: t1960
MP1: t1920
MP2: t2130
MP3: t1920
Hero: t2260
Button: t1910
SB: t1940
BB: t2000

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t60 (pot was t90), 4 folds, Hero calls t60 (pot was t150), Button raises to t240, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t180 (pot was t450), Hero calls t180 (pot was t630).

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t810, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets t240, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t240 (pot was t1050).

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t1290, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t1290, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button is all-in t1430, Hero calls t1430 (pot was t2720).

Results:
Final pot: t4150

DevinLake · #2 11-22-2007, 05:12 AM

Putting it all together...preflop, c-betting multiway, shoving river...seems like ur not ahead often enough to call here.

If he was bluffing, I'd think his river bet would be more consistant with his flop bet if they were both, in fact, bluffs.

LeadbellyDan · #3 11-22-2007, 07:13 AM

This kinda looks like 88 or a bluff. Possibly A7 but very few players would be raising that preflop. Would be a very strange line with an overpair and is pretty stange whatever he has.

Good chance I'd call this while playing just cos it looks weird and bluffy but maybe I'm a donk. Hard to put him on a range but I think we probably are good here >40%.

Scotty_12 · #4 11-23-2007, 01:32 AM

Devin,

Do you not think the cbet is weak as [censored]? Like I said in the OP, he m akes the '2p2' size raise pre, and then bets the same amount giving 4-1 to call postflop ... and checks behind on turn?

I really like your point that if flop bet + river bet is a bluff that they would be consistent ... but why would that not apply to value bets as well? And why check turn (with exception of 88?)

Pudge714 · #5 11-23-2007, 01:38 AM

I like. Basically I think he has a seven or air. Some people won't value shove like JJ+ here and I think they will bet the turn a lot with it. He could have 7x, but than his preflop range is wide enough that he doesn't need to shove that much.

Scotty_12 · #6 11-23-2007, 01:39 AM

I've been a little stationary lately. Ill post another station hand in a few minutes

Danastasio1 · #7 11-23-2007, 02:44 AM

Noob question, can't villain have a high PP and be correctly putting you on a pair lower than his?

DevinLake · #8 11-23-2007, 04:34 AM

Yea scotty, the bet does look weak, but so is the action in front of him.

Pudge, don't you find a lot of players play AA/KK this way? I'm thinking more the bet-check-bet line in general than the bet small-check-over bet shove. But, the idea is the same.

Either way is it a [censored] spot and pretty close either way imo.

AMT · #9 11-23-2007, 06:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Noob question, can't villain have a high PP and be correctly putting you on a pair lower than his?

[/ QUOTE ]

for sure. he can have other crap too though, which is why it becomes close.

scotty,

i think im siding more with devin's POV here, this is a badly played big hand a lot IMO and im not sure i love a river call (i still think it looks super close because of how this played out). the other thing is, im not sure what is supposed to happen if you hold JJ at that point (i dont know functionally if theres a difference btw TT/JJ, so its making the decision harder)

Lahmshuffle · #10 11-23-2007, 08:10 AM

fold pf no option?