Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

[0524432]

Venue: Foxwoods WPT Poker Room
Game: 1-2 nlhe

On the river, in a HU pot, Hero moves all in with JTc on a [JhAhX][2h][4h] after heavy betting on flop and turn. Villain, after tanking for minutes (at a live tbl mind you) turns up 35h in front of his stack and across the line on the table and says angrily "I had you til the [censored] river". A middle aged showdown muppet on the other end of the table immediately says "You have a straight flush". Villain embarassingly starts putting his stacks of $ into the pot as fast as possible saying, I never said fold. Hero becomes furious, claiming nobody turns their cards up over the line at the table and says anything like "I had you til the [censored] river" when they're are going to be calling. Villain claims, he never said the word "fold". After 2 seperate floor managers talk it over and a huge scene in the Foxwoods poker room they decide.......

You're the floor, what's your decision? (Results to come after some discussion)

[Pscam10]

Cards speak... Straight flush wins the pot

[0524432]

this is not a made up scenario btw, this actually happened, if you read this, post a response

[AngusThermopyle]

Did not say 'Fold'
Did not muck cards (at least by my definition)
See numerous other threads on 'if I expose my hand HU on the river is it dead?' re if your club allows that.

Last time I checked, a straight flush beats a pair of Jacks.

And MrLoudmouth gets a sledgehammer to the huevos.

[lonn19]

The guy threw his cards over the line. Doesn't that equal a fold?

[Poshua]

This is not a case where "cards speak" is the key matter, because the hand is not at showdown. Villain had to call a bet to get to showdown. Regardless of what Villain's cards say, the question is whether his action of placing the cards in the center and declaring "I had you til the river" constituted a fold.

I think it's hard to interpret that action as other than a fold. Further, if it wasn't a fold, Villain and "Middle aged showdown muppet" have violated One Player to a Hand.

As such, I would award the pot to Hero. MASM gets a warning not to play others' hands. Villain presumably learns his lesson on his own.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not a case where "cards speak" is the key matter, because the hand is not at showdown. Villain had to call a bet to get to showdown. Regardless of what Villain's cards say, the question is whether his action of placing the cards in the center and declaring "I had you til the river" constituted a fold.



[/ QUOTE ]

ding ding ding

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
Further, if it wasn't a fold, Villain and "Middle aged showdown muppet" have violated One Player to a Hand.



[/ QUOTE ]

How did Villain violate that rule? Did he solicit advice?

If there is a bet on the river to you, and I offer unsolicited advice that "you should call", I have violated the rule. Not you. Your hand is not dead.

[ungarop]

Nit alert... there is no 200NL at Foxwoods. I assume OP means the 1/2 (60-300 buy-in) game since the 2/5 is 300MIN.

[Pscam10]

Agreed, "cards speak" doesn't apply because villain still has to call a bet. However, how can the pot be awarded to hero here? Once he realised he had the best hands and made the call its his pot. Middle-aged women violated the one person to a hand rule, but what can be done besides warning her?

Villain never said fold. Can he be penalized for exposing his hand while heads up when all betting is finished?