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#1
09-25-2007, 07:39 AM
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Middle pairs vs. tight players.
Say you have 99 in the HJ. You raise of course and the TAGish BB 3 bets. You call.
The flop comes something like K82. How do we proceed when the Tag leads out? I find these spots very tricky. Is this a spot where raising the flop for a FSD, since the TAG will never 3bet us without AK+, is a good move? Do we go into call down mode but fold the river UI if he bets, since we know the TAG will never bet a worse hand on the river? 
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#3
09-25-2007, 07:45 AM
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Re: Middle pairs vs. tight players.
This is so player dependent and dynamics dependent.
Against a dumb straight forward "I have read Stox book, but I still suck at hand reading" TAG I will mostly call flop and turn and fold river if he bets. Against a tricky player or against a player I suspect is tilting I will just call down. I think those players where you can raise flop, bet turn and check river against are the same where you can use the call flop - call turn - fold river line. The latter saves you 1 small bet - edit: whenbehind. It wins you one SB when ahead. BTW I will almost always cap preflop.
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#5
09-25-2007, 07:50 AM
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Re: Middle pairs vs. tight players.
If you "know" that villain don't bet a worse hand off course it's a fold
 Don't need an EV-computation to figure that out. But often they throw in a bet with AQ ab AJ UI and sometimes they have A8s. You can't raise the flop for a free SD! I guess you mean turn and on a dry board with no FD you could raise/fold turn.
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#6
09-25-2007, 07:52 AM
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Re: Middle pairs vs. tight players.
You can the raise the flop for a FSD if you're planning to check the river.
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#7
09-25-2007, 08:00 AM
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Re: Middle pairs vs. tight players.
[ QUOTE ]
You can the raise the flop for a FSD if you're planning to check the river. [/ QUOTE ] I don't call that a FSD-raise but OK. I don't really see the point in doing that in this hand? It will very often be an expensive-SD move since we can get reraised on both flop and river.
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#8
09-25-2007, 08:09 AM
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Re: Middle pairs vs. tight players.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can the raise the flop for a FSD if you're planning to check the river. [/ QUOTE ] I don't call that a FSD-raise but OK. I don't really see the point in doing that in this hand? It will very often be an expensive-SD move since we can get reraised on both flop and river. [/ QUOTE ] You cant get raised on the river. The line is raise flop bet turn check river You use your position to get a cheaper SD compared to call flop call turn call river However, as you say. It sucks when he 3-bets flop or c/r turn. Unless you can fold in those spots you shouldnt use the line. It also sucks when you are up against a predictable TAGs where you can call flop call turn fold river if he bets bet or check river if he checks. 9 out of 10 TAGs in my games are never betting a worse hand on the river when I call flop and turn. So I have a pretty easy fold if they 3-barrel.
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#9
09-25-2007, 08:14 AM
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Re: Middle pairs vs. tight players.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You can the raise the flop for a FSD if you're planning to check the river. [/ QUOTE ] I don't call that a FSD-raise but OK. I don't really see the point in doing that in this hand? It will very often be an expensive-SD move since we can get reraised on both flop and river. [/ QUOTE ] You cant get raised on the river. The line is raise flop bet turn check river You use your position to get a cheaper SD compared to call flop call turn call river However, as you say. It sucks when he 3-bets flop or c/r turn. Unless you can fold in those spots you shouldnt use the line. It also sucks when you are up against a predictable TAGs where you can call flop call turn fold river if he bets bet or check river if he checks. 9 out of 10 TAGs in my games are never betting a worse hand on the river when I call flop and turn. So I have a pretty easy fold if they 3-barrel. [/ QUOTE ] sorry ment that that play can get raised on flop or turn. A FSD-raise on turn can just get raised on turn...
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