Turn second nuts, overbet bluff river...

[jono]

dont like

[ikestoys]

ppl never fold boats
ppl don't really fold flushes
you have a decent hand that can win on its own

why?

[jfish]

youre bluffing him off one specific hand, i dont think he has J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] enough to warrant this. if you had K9/A9/etc i wouldnt mind it.

[AAismyfriend]

This is probably the most retarded hand I've seen all day. He's not folding the Jh, and he never has a boat here, so what is the purpose of this shove? You have the best hand here a lot, why not just try and get to showdown?

[DanJ.]

ppl fold J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] here?

[jfish]

i fold J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] here, but i think i fold in spots nobody else does guaging from most forum replies.

[Black winter day]

Bet-fold or check-call a reasonable bet, wtf with the shove?
Unless he is weak-tight and underolled, he'll never fold Jh and your hand is good many times on showdowns.

Basically, you lose stack to fh and Jh and give many hands that you beat a super easy fold.

[Haiku]

I would like this a lot more if you had a boat.

[Terrabon98]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, yes they are. you acquire no new information in between making the turn call and then shoving the river. if you think he has JhX, you shouldn't be calling the turn, and if you don't think he has JhX, you shouldn't be shoving the river.

logically inconsistent

[/ QUOTE ]

sigh...

It's not logically inconsistent b/c things have changed since the turn and the river...not in his range, but on the board. Come on guys, this really isn't that hard

I never said he has the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], but i think it's most likely based on the action. If I shove the river, I pretty much always win. He doesn't fold a boat, but he never has a boat here, so that is a moot point. He folds any heart pretty much always though. So if his most likely holding is the J hearts, then it makes sense to play it safe and get him to fold, instead of trying to get value from lower hearts



If he does decide to make a hero call, he should be making it with a lower heart as well as with the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] , so I may get value out of it ocassionally too

I can definitely understand if you don't like it b/c you think that lower hearts and random hands I beat that he will call with are in his range enough to c/c or b/f, but since nobody but jfish even mentioned that, (I tihnk), that probably isn't the case with most of you

EDIT to add that Yes, this overly tight TAG will fold the J hearts a LOT here (as will a lot of good players, but i don't want to insult anyone on here based on replies...)

[Go_Blue88]

i don't like preflop, but whatever.

it's an interesting play, but i don't think people fold the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] as often as you think. people don't fold.

i do think that people will call with worse sometimes though--people love to call. (eg a guy who flops a flush and calls out of spite)

edit-- given pf, there's not many FH's he can put you on. so that's a problem.