Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card? - Page 2

fishyak · #11 08-13-2007, 12:51 PM

Commerce does very few things consistently, but in this area I have ALWAYS seen:

1) dealer calls the floor (and ignores what anyone at the table is saying)
2) on explaining that the turn card was exposed too early before all the action closed, the card is put aside and action is completed on the flop.
3) A new turn card is exposed with a betting round.
4) The bad turn card is returned to the live portion of the deck which is shuffled.
5) A river card is exposed and I've seen the prior bad turn card return to the board on the river. Destiny.

I've never seen a dealer even hesitate to call the floor in this kind of situation. Maybe Foxwoods docks your dealers for making this kind of mistake.

budblown · #12 08-13-2007, 12:54 PM

Absolutely, call the floor put the turn back in the deck, shuffle then let people finish the betting from the flop. Then burn and turn. What was the decision from the floor?

chesspain · #13 08-13-2007, 01:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What was the decision from the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

The correct one, I assume, as the dealer was instructed to:

1) Place aside the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],
2) Burn and turn the next card, which would have been the river,
3) [player action]
4) Shuffle the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] back into the stub,
5) Turn a new turn card (I can't remember if there was a burn before this final card).

bernie · #14 08-13-2007, 01:07 PM

Since he was the last player to act, it can make it a little more gray of an area and seem like a waste of time to call the floor. However, for consistency, I'd call the floor and try to get a new turn card.

[ QUOTE ]
And does it matter if the turn card was instead a brick which might not have just killed my hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Regardless of what the turn card was, even if it was a brick or an A or 3.

[ QUOTE ]
The dealer looks at me and says "You call the floor."

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. That'd be something else I'd be asking the floor about.

b

bernie · #15 08-13-2007, 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What was the decision from the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

The correct one, I assume, as the dealer was instructed to:

1) Place aside the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],
2) Burn and turn the next card, which would have been the river,
3) [player action]
4) Shuffle the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] back into the stub,
5) Turn a new turn card (I can't remember if there was a burn before this final card).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. No burn when they bring the river card. Good decision. If anything, just for sake of consistency.

Funny thing is, if someone would've won the hand on the turn and ended up now losing they'd probably blame you for it when it was really the morons fault this situation came up. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

b

Brocktoon · #16 08-13-2007, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Commerce does very few things consistently, but in this area I have ALWAYS seen:

1) dealer calls the floor (and ignores what anyone at the table is saying)
2) on explaining that the turn card was exposed too early before all the action closed, the card is put aside and action is completed on the flop.
3) A new turn card is exposed with a betting round.
4) The bad turn card is returned to the live portion of the deck which is shuffled.
5) A river card is exposed and I've seen the prior bad turn card return to the board on the river. Destiny.

I've never seen a dealer even hesitate to call the floor in this kind of situation. Maybe Foxwoods docks your dealers for making this kind of mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldn't steps 4 and 3 be reversed?

It looks like chess says this is how it was handled as well but it doesn't make sense to me that the turn card not be shuffled back into the deck since IMO it is a live card that should have a chance to hit the turn again.

Is this done to make sure the "river card" still winds up on the board or something? That seems dumb since no one knows what the river card is and its irrelevant whereas removing the 7s from the deck while dealing the turn actually affects the hand.

chesspain · #17 08-13-2007, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Commerce does very few things consistently, but in this area I have ALWAYS seen:

1) dealer calls the floor (and ignores what anyone at the table is saying)
2) on explaining that the turn card was exposed too early before all the action closed, the card is put aside and action is completed on the flop.
3) A new turn card is exposed with a betting round.
4) The bad turn card is returned to the live portion of the deck which is shuffled.
5) A river card is exposed and I've seen the prior bad turn card return to the board on the river. Destiny.

I've never seen a dealer even hesitate to call the floor in this kind of situation. Maybe Foxwoods docks your dealers for making this kind of mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldn't steps 4 and 3 be reversed?

It looks like chess says this is how it was handled as well but it doesn't make sense to me that the turn card not be shuffled back into the deck since IMO it is a live card that should have a chance to hit the turn again.

Is this done to make sure the "river card" still winds up on the board or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes--in fact, the floorman said, as he was explaining the procedure to the dealer and the rest of the table, "O.K., first burn and turn what would have been the river..."

offTopic · #18 08-13-2007, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What was the decision from the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

The correct one, I assume, as the dealer was instructed to:

1) Place aside the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],
2) Burn and turn the next card, which would have been the river,
3) [player action]
4) Shuffle the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] back into the stub,
5) Turn a new turn card (I can't remember if there was a burn before this final card).

[/ QUOTE ]

This just happened in a game I was playing over the weekend, and they did burn an additional card before the river was dealt, so there were 4 burn cards in the muck.

AKQJ10 · #19 08-13-2007, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Foxwoods docks your dealers for making this kind of mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha... wait, you didn't mean that to be comical, did you?

Not to hijack, but there are probably already pages of threads of surly Foxwoods dealer stories. Once I let a slow dealer get the best of me. After I asked her to resolve all-ins only after dealing out the board, she decided to slow down the action to punish me. I called her a bitch (not a reaction I'm proud of, no matter how bad she was), so the floor with a wink said, "I'm sorry, sir, you're going to have to leave this game." But lo and behold, he just happened to seat me in another game that had just come open, and out of earshot of the dealer basically acknowledged that she wasn't a very good one.

Actually I'll stick up for most FW management. They know several of their dealers suck. They just can't do anything about it.

All of this was current as of 2006, and it sounds like not much has changed.

TexRef · #20 08-13-2007, 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This just happened in a game I was playing over the weekend, and they did burn an additional card before the river was dealt, so there were 4 burn cards in the muck.

[/ QUOTE ]
They did it incorrectly then.

As stated before -- you burn and turn the river as the new turn. Then you shuffle the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] back into the remaining deck and deal the river with no burn. You have already burned for the turn and river by this point and the idea is that the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] has the same chance to come on the river as any other card.