HORSE Tourney Razz - When to fold?

[PoorLawyer]

Okay so I am fairly clueless about Razz. Is this one real bad? I think I should have bet 5th, but besides that should I have folded 4th or beyond? I paired, but he bricked too.....


Tournament - HORSE - Razz - Level III (40/80), Ante 8, Bring-In 12 (converter)

Seat 1: 1,707
Seat 2: 2,262
Seat 3: 2,453
Seat 4: 1,412
Seat 5: 1,447
Seat 6: 2,417
Hero: 2,260
Seat 8: 2,042

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 2: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (6.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (4.10 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

6th Street - (4.10 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

River - (6.10 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

Total pot: (6.10 BB)

[betgo]

4th is a call or raise. I would probably fold 6th. If you are going to call 6th, you should call 7th.

[relativity_x]

I think you have to bet 5th.

On 6th, you can fold/call.

On 7th, you have an easy fold.

I say you played the hand decently.

[Poker CPA]

you bet 5th, and its over. Is it Bad? Very bad. You're giving the chaser a free card. Most unlike you BS, something unexpected; a mental lapse. If someone else accused you of making this move, I wouldn't believe it. How come you're not this bad at the stud tables?

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
you bet 5th, and its over. Is it Bad? Very bad. You're giving the chaser a free card. Most unlike you BS, something unexpected; a mental lapse. If someone else accused you of making this move, I wouldn't believe it. How come you're not this bad at the stud tables?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well as I said, I'm not a razz player. That may beg the question as to why I'm playing a HORSE tourney, but thats another story (a story with a $3 buy-in while I'm at work). As soon as I hit check I thought it was a large error. I really think he might have called and tried to chase me down as he probably started better than I did given that he reraised 3rd and then led out with his brick which was almost as bad as my pair. At least if I caught good 6th I could have raised and got that lost bet back.

I'm not this bad at the stud tables because i've played just one or two more hands of that than this razz nonsense...and by one or two I mean hundred thousand [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

What are your thoughts on folding 6th, as betgo suggests?

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
4th is a call or raise. I would probably fold 6th. If you are going to call 6th, you should call 7th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why call 7th after I banana and have K high? I'm almost surely beat there aren't I?

[Jim T]

A fold on 6th is terrible. At WORST you are a 2:1 dog. There are 4 BB in the pot plus you have to call 2 more. Call 2 bets to win 6 at 1:2 is an easy call.

Plus if you catch bad like you did here it only costs 1 bet when you fold on 7th

[cgrohman]

For the love of God bet 5th.

[Poker CPA]

And "Billable Hours", what becomes of them my dear fellow. You're in great shape on 5th, make him "make a mistake by chasing you". Its an automatic fold for him and his bet on 6th is also automatic bet by him, no matter how his 5 affects his hand and in turn makes his 7th st also automatic. Why its that way is because he thinks your 4 on 5th gave u 2 pair and thats why you checked, therefore you're in worst shape than he is and he decides to make you the chaser. You both need a card on 7th, so the call on 6th is OK given the pot size, but you're out of position because he can force you to make a tough decision on 7th. A call on 7th would be a bigger mistake than the check on 5th, only a HUGE fish would make that call. Its a situation where if you're calling, then raise and take your chances.

The reraise on 3rd means he wants to play HU and/or he has the third 2. But by 5th street, it means very little.

Bottom line, you got yourself into a mess (in a $3 tournament). Maybe my assessment of you as one of the top 5 stud players on the C network is incorrect. Then that would make me wrong and that never happens. You're just too good at stud. And who may I ask was billed for this poker time. Lawyers, you just can't trust them.

[Andy B]

Folding sixth strikes me as mildly riduculous.

Definitly bet fifth. Yeesh. The river's a fold. We can't even beat most bluffs.