How to counter the idiot at the table? - Page 2

jackaaron · #11 08-26-2006, 12:53 PM

The OP is not saying that the K9 player (SB) played his hand incorrectly, or like a donk, correct?

AKQJ10 · #12 08-26-2006, 01:57 PM

I don't think so -- preflop is bad (just fold K9 for 1.5 bets OOP), and calling two more bets on the flop is dubious, but the K9 is not the "idiot" in question.

slcseas · #13 08-26-2006, 05:18 PM

If the maniac is blowing up pot sizes and people dumb themselves down to his level, why would anyone leave that game? What I offered was obviously my personal opinion, but a loose game like this is +EV for a tight player. Make adjustments, tighten up hand selection. Get paid off big on one or two hands.

If he isn't comfortable then he can certainly leave. But maybe, just maybe.... he could make an adjustment and attempt to improve his game. It's a relatively new and revolutionary concept, but it's really starting to catch on around here.

AKQJ10 · #14 08-26-2006, 05:28 PM

"make an adjustment and attempt to improve his game" -- Yes, but you don't do that at the same stakes that you play at as an already accomplished player.

In other words, if OP is comfortable playing the $1 game without a maniac, but doesn't play well against a maniac, he should try to find 25c or smaller games with maniacs.

No joke, even a little play money practice might be OK, just to remind him that TAG play gets the money when everyone else is just spewing chips. But finding a maniac to play against at 25c would be far better.

Shandrax · #15 08-26-2006, 07:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If the maniac is blowing up pot sizes and people dumb themselves down to his level, why would anyone leave that game? What I offered was obviously my personal opinion, but a loose game like this is +EV for a tight player. Make adjustments, tighten up hand selection. Get paid off big on one or two hands.

If he isn't comfortable then he can certainly leave. But maybe, just maybe.... he could make an adjustment and attempt to improve his game. It's a relatively new and revolutionary concept, but it's really starting to catch on around here.

[/ QUOTE ]

By "improving" I assume you mean to limp with A-Ks UTG in order to make a flush with 9 guys in the pot for 125 BB. Yes, that may be an adjustment. On the other side it is tough to play T-T any different, because if I just call and play them passively I can fold to any overcard. Since I doubt that this is the correct way to play such a pocket pair, further "improvement" in this area is out of question. You certainly can't improve against bad beats anyways...

slcseas · #16 08-27-2006, 08:31 AM

You make some radical assumptions based reading exactly two replies of mine in a single thread. By "improving", I simply mean adjusting your game to suit the current situation. You can certainly raise AKs UTG, but you need to ready to abandon ship with TPTK when you meet too much resistance on a 5-way flop.

My suggestion was that you gear down after you didn't hit a set on the flop. If you are taking PP's into 4 and 5 way pots, more often than not you are going to need to improve to a set or better to win. Laying down TT is not the end of the world in a multi-way pot. Your beloved table idiot is going to inflate enough pots that you can win a large pot later on when you have a far more distinct advantage.

dogmeat · #17 08-27-2006, 01:13 PM

This is a great player to have on your game - regardless of where you sit. Buy him a drink [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

einbert · #18 08-27-2006, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so -- preflop is bad (just fold K9 for 1.5 bets OOP), and calling two more bets on the flop is dubious, but the K9 is not the "idiot" in question.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're playing way too tight against this guy.

Tight doesn't mean just preflop.

aes14 · #19 08-27-2006, 06:56 PM

I'm sorry for the way this is coming off and this is a serious question, but this is 1/2 limit. Who cares?

I was playing 15/30 and three bet AA, three bet again on flop, three bet again on turn when I hit AAA. Then the maniac wakes up and bets the river when a 2 hits. He played 45 and hit runner 3, runner 2 for a straight. It happens, it is not worth analyzing. People are either cheating or idiots and it is not worth worrying about. Poker is actually pretty stupid when you think about it and it is just a game and means nothing. If you choose to play poker just play your hands and dont worry about the maniacs. I have a feeling they are either cheating, drunk, or angry.

AKQJ10 · #20 08-27-2006, 10:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so -- preflop is bad (just fold K9 for 1.5 bets OOP), and calling two more bets on the flop is dubious, but the K9 is not the "idiot" in question.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're playing way too tight against this guy.

Tight doesn't mean just preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I'm understanding.

From the perspective of the K9, I bet my top pair of nines, king kicker. Maniac raises, but that's OK because he's a mainac and could have anything. Mister 2+2 who seems like a strong player and was the preflop raiser now three-bets. I'm getting 8.5 : 1 (by my count, 17 bets and I have to call two), but I'm not closing the betting.

This seems to me to be a dictionary example of "reverse implied odds". I may well have the best hand and it may well hold up, but I'm going to be paying a lot of money between now and the river to find out.

Now, you're saying that I should hang in there with my K9? I haven't played LHE in a while and I was probably never that good at it, but that just seems like trouble.

But maybe as a five-out drawing hand that might even be best, it's somewhat justifiable. I'd figure at a wild table with a four-bet cap that I'm probably paying three more bets, against an expected pot of 23 hence a little less than 8:1, to take a turn card off and reassess. As it turned out Maniac didn't cap it, but it sounds like that was a bit of a surprise.