Very Weird Hand X-Post from HSNL: Showing Love for MSNL

[FoxwoodsFiend]

I wanna see how HSNL and MSNL differ on this and I think this forum has a lot of really good advice, so here we go:

I'm running at 24/17. I got my stack by getting it in w/oesfd vs set and winning and snapping off a big bluff w/AK on ace-high board and haven't been out of line.

Hero (UTG): $7,575
MP: $2,257
CO: $2,057
BTN: $2,072
SB: $1,652.46
BB: $4,140

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $70</font>, MP calls $70, CO folds, BTN calls $70, <font color="red">SB raises to $180</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $110, MP calls $110, BTN calls $110

SB is 30/7 over 63 hands. So the first question is: what should I do here? One very good poster claims fold cuz he always has KK/AA. Another says reraise call it off. I opted to call. The two people behind me who called are both 16/11ish players so I'm treading lightly in this hand.

Flop: ($740) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $220</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $440</font>, MP folds, BTN calls $440, SB folds

The plan was to fold to a cold push by either of the 16/11s and to get it in vs the preflop reraiser. Now the button coldcalls with the reraiser still to act and I start freaking out. What do you guys think of this line? I think the flop is the toughest spot by far in this hand.

Turn: ($1,840) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Well, he doesn't have 22. I think I'm still crushed. I check w/intention of folding. He checks back. Slowplay or am I good here?

River: ($1,840) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero ...is lost

Check/fold? Shove? Bet 500? Check/call? What do you guys do here?

Comments on all streets appreciated.

[JKratzer]

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So the first question is: what should I do here? One very good poster claims fold cuz he always has KK/AA

[/ QUOTE ]

can't you profitably call for set value then?

i call probably.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop is the toughest spot by far in this hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

good argument for raise/calling pf because you really have to expect this situation a lot (the other guys are obv calling pre when you do).

turn plan of c/f looks good. river probably the same, he might be more likely to check behind his boats once the board pairs with just a psb left.

[fishfather]

Flatcall of the minraise by any decent player (no matter what his stats) is very strong and typically a set--at least at the levels I play: 2-4 thru 3-6. At my levels I'd check fold the river without any second thoughts.

[Jeffmet3]

i really really like the flop play, as I think it defines his hand, while being cheap and giving you the chance to take down the hand.

i can't see you possibly being ahead now, so i check/fold river

best case scenario he has 98 and u take it

[Black winter day]

Preflop, i'd just call as well - really looks like SB has a huge hand (since he folded the flop, probably AK), but we have set odds and you'd hate to be shoved on if you 4bet this preflop.

Flop, i'd make it a big bigger, if the button folds, SB might call you with 2 overs and you have to bet blank turn (otherwise he has 25% equity in a big pot for just 220$ more) and getting c/r here would certainly be awful.So, make it about 600 and shut down if called.

Once button cold calls - i am checking the turn too.Check-folding probably.

River - Have no idea what he could cold call with on the flop and check behind turn.Set makes sense though, since it just became a boat or quads and after you check, probably doesn't put you on a big hand (he still has a psb left for the river or hoping you'd bet river and he can reraise).

How aggro is he?
Some players are just never raising without huge hands, so i'd might make it like 600 and fold to a shove.

But in any case, i'd most likely check and fold to a big bet, might call a small one.
The only draw on the flop is JT, and he just got a top pair which he almost certainly won't turn into a bluff.
And the only hand you crushed on the flop and makes sense is TT and that now beats you too.

FWIW, my usual game is Nl1000.

[KingGordy]

Preflop I think is a clear call. Raise/calling seems terrible against a 7% pfr whose raise sizing screams huge pair, as does folding as I think we have odds to play for set value alone because we can usually anticipate the two other players to come along behind us.

Flop is hard. Obviously we're not going to straight up fold, but I think a normal sized raise ($900 or something) is bad because it commits us to get it in even though we're usually crushed if all the money goes in. I think calling and raising small are both acceptable.

Once the 16/11 cold calls the flop I'm pretty scared. I don't think his check back on the turn discounts a set at all since he just boated up and will therefore slowplay a lot more than he would on like a 3 or something. I think river's a pretty clear c/f, with his range being primarily 88/99. He could also have TJ or something which he will probably check back on the river, and we might have been able to squeeze some value out of by betting, but that's pretty thin and a 16/11 probably isn't even calling JTo pre in this spot.

[Triumph36]

pre is fine, post-flop is pretty awesome, although with people behind you, it may be just fine to call (and that's enough to slow down a 30/7 - they don't bluff).

TAG may have JT given the action, and he could have 67 too - however with reraiser left to act, these are ambitious calls. he could have 89 and is too busy locating his bottle of strychnine to try to bluff you off an overpair. i'm curious if you think he is capable of bluff shoving this spot - i doubt it. so i go ahead and bet 1/3rd pot for value and fold to a raise.

edit - he's got to be scared of you being full too.

[Black winter day]

I don't believe 89 is ever flat calling after that action.

[jfish]

just call flop. given how protected this pot is i dont expect anybody to be bluffing with any frequency and 16/11s dont even have many combinations of oesds (which are the only draw).

as played i would c/f.

[ikestoys]

Folding pre is too weak even if we are only playing for set value (which we arent) b/c of the dead money in the pot. Pushing only gets called by better so calling in position seems like the only play.

Flop is ok, although I would probably just call because as Triumph said, 30/7's don't throw multi-street bluffs and there are two ppl left to act.

On the turn, you have to be scared as hell of villains range, also, if he's any good, he's not calling with 98. C/f seems best

The river is a really strange spot and at this point I'm confused as to what the hell he could possibly have. Is your read on villain that he is a good nit or bad nit? if he's bad enough to call with 98, then a small b/f doesn't seem too bad, as its unlikely he's going to bluff this hand and may call with worse. Most likely though, I feel like we have to be toast and I c/f unless he throws some stupid bet out there giving us 6 or 7 to 1 so I can spite call him.