The flop I am looking for is....

[Unknown Soldier]

yeah you have a point there, but i think i can add something. What i was getting at all along really, just trying to understand your question.

The right answer is that you shouldn't have a preference at all. Your only goal is to make correct decisions, when you let emotions come into your game you're in trouble. Every flop that comes out is just another situation that you have to make a decision on; whether it is a hard or an easy one, that's all.

[Nick Royale]

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Nick- Your post is a good one. But I don't think I play so exploitable that my TPGK hand = ATC. Also, I don't agree that my hands value is the same as ATC after either one of these flops.

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Now this is completely missing my point. (This is assuming online vs semi weak tags who are not calling with crap in 3-ways pots).

What I'm saying is we have great fe on both flops, but when called we have more value with the oesd. Both hands have way, way more value than ATC, I have no idea where got that from. But on the 2nd flop we don't have much greater equity than on the 1st one (though admittedly our TP has more equity). Thing is with the oesd we'll know when we have the best hand and we're able to value town really hard (even sometimes winning 150bb though not often). That's not possible in the 2nd hand because when we get called on the flop our equity ain't great and we have little chance of improving.

[jlocdog]

So are you saying then, that if we get action on the KT3r flop, then you are ready to play a big pot with QJ here? Why would you really want to play a big pot with QJ on either board here?

[Nick Royale]

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So are you saying then, that if we get action on the KT3r flop, then you are ready to play a big pot with QJ here? Why would you really want to play a big pot with QJ on either board here?

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What I'm saying is we have great fe on both flops,but when called we have more value with the oesd. Both hands have way, way more value than ATC, I have no idea where got that from.

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If we get raised on the flop both hands are marginal. We dump the 2nd hand but the oesd will often be +ev to call.

What I was talking about was that if we get called our ev is better with an oesd. This doesn't mean I'm going bananas UI, but I'd try to get a free card on the turn most often.

[jlocdog]

Are you looking for a free card on the Q75r flop with QJo if called?

If so, why again would you want Q high with 1 card to come? You really think his/their range is so tight where we are behind more often then not when we get action?

And also, no one has brought up our position in this hand and how it affects are decision or thought process. I think that is very important to this hand.

[Nick Royale]

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Are you looking for a free card on the Q75r flop with QJo if called?

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No, I'm betting the turn as the last money I put in.

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If so, why again would you want Q high with 1 card to come? You really think his/their range is so tight where we are behind more often then not when we get action?

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Don't really follow.


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And also, no one has brought up our position in this hand and how it affects are decision or thought process. I think that is very important to this hand.

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I agree, and position is worth more in the 1st hand imo. But since we're not in the worst position the flop bet might buy us position.

[jlocdog]

"You really think his/their range is so tight where we are behind more often then not when we get action?"

My point being, that if you are called, you would rather have Q high because you want to make a hand that you know is good, as you said here:

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Thing is with the oesd we'll know when we have the best hand and we're able to value town really hard (even sometimes winning 150bb though not often). That's not possible in the 2nd hand because when we get called on the flop our equity ain't great and we have little chance of improving.

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rather then TPGK where he could easily have a worse Q, a mid PP, a SD, a pair + gutter,....