Playing KK and AK preflop

[Jw513]

I was just thinking about the hands I've played recently and some thoughts came into my mind.

Consider all of these to be 6max scenarios against good tags.

1) Do you ever fold KK preflop? It seems like whenever I stick KK in preflop, I see AA 1/3 of the time, but I won't ever fold it. What happens if a tag1 raises, you 3bet, tag2 4bets, tag1 shoves... do you ever fold KK here (you only put in 12-15bb in pot)?

2) Do you want to stick AK in preflop? I see alot of ppl saying to 4bet and try to get stacks in, whether in position or oop. I find that theres only 2 scenarios, flipping for 100bb stacks, or being dominated by KK/AA. So why do ppl love getting it in with AK?

I've just started playing cash games and working on my game like 2 months ago, but still a noob compared to most of you guys. Question 1 is just hypothetical. Im asking question 2 b/c I have a hard time playing AK. If you want to share any input, plz do.

[whyzze]

what are your stats. Your preflop actions with some of weaker premiums should be a function of your preflop agression.

If you play 8/5 then ya, tags are gonna have AA alot.

If you play 24/20 then AK/qq is a monster and we fist pump.

[Lego05]

1.) Nope...not with 100BB's. Ok in that situation I'll say maybe.


2.) Sometimes I want to stick AK in pre-flop. Take this scenario:

100BB's you're CO (you've been playing TAG and very aggressive on CO and button, Good TAG is button

Folds to you, you raise, button 3bets, blinds fold. What do you want to do? Folding sucks obviously and even worse here since this guy can be raising you with 97s or w/e. Calling and playing OOP is not good....you will miss a lot and he will c-bet especially after you check. 4betting and calling if he shoves is the obvious choice. He'll fold a large percentage of his holdings including probably 88-JJ so you are folding out hands that were beating you. You will take the pot down a lot. And you even have like 32% equity vs. QQ+.

[Lego05]

Consider what whyzze said. I was assuming you're closer to the 21/18 numbers then the 10/7 numbers and that your attempt to steal is 25-35ish.

[Leviathan101]

I won't fold KK preflop for 100bb unless I see a 4 bet and 5bet from nits.

AK you 4bet because you force the coinflips to FOLD. 4 bet shoving AK is basically a big semi bluff, but your equity is good vs anything other than AA and KK, both of which are half as likely since you have both an Ace and a King. It's very difficult to call a 4bet, and you can make people fold JJ and AK when you do it, both of which is very good for you. Calling AI with AK for 100bb isn't so hot, but 4betting it is much more +ev than calling with it. I wrote a long post about it on another thread.

[Peleus]

1) If I'm at / below 150bb it would take the stars to align to make me fold KK preflop. Just don't do it (at microstakes levels).

2) I rarely get it all in with AK. AK is an over rated hand. You're either a slight dog (77-QQ) or a major dog (AA/KK). Apart from that you might be splitting with another AK.

Just not worth getting it all in with it in a cash game. Fold and wait for a better spot.

I personally think AK is the most overrated hand in cash games ever.