|
|
#11
03-10-2007, 03:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: basic 2-4 hand, raised on river
[ QUOTE ]
Villain 3bet preflop. Not on the flop. Villain didn't checkraise the river, he just raised it. Calling a 'chunk of your stack' doesn't matter. This is cash, not tournament. Not sure if that changes your opinion or not, but they are important differences. [/ QUOTE ] I knew the 3 bet was preflop- that was a typo on my part. I thought this was a checkraise, but it was only a raise- this does change things- makes me lean toward calling. Seems more likely he detected weakness and thinks he can steal. Probably still a 60/40 decision slightly leaning towards folding. Its still largely a decision that is villian dependent. I would probably call an aggressive player here to send a message that he can't reraise me without a hand. If villian recently lost a big pot I also lean towards calling. If the guy only puts his money in with the nuts you fold. 
|
|
#12
03-10-2007, 04:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: basic 2-4 hand, raised on river
I know it's opponent dependent but I gave all the info I know about villain in the OP. If I knew who he was and played with him every day I wouldn't ask the forum how to play the hand, because no one would be able to answer the question better than I could. This is the main reason I don't post many hands.
Also, I don't really think this has to be nuts or air. Much less so than most situations where you get raised on the river. Why can't he be raising AA or AK as a bluff (maybe you count that as air really), or JJ for value?
|
|
#13
03-10-2007, 06:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: basic 2-4 hand, raised on river
I do consider AAxx, KJxx, or AKxx as air. If he had a hand like that he is going to keep the pot as small as possible and just call your bet (if he thinks he has the best hand). He isn't going to raise you with that crap for value. The only reason he would raise is he either has a full house for value or he has nothing and wants you to fold.
I call this villian's river raise. I think this just reeks of a bluff now that I think about it (i incorrectly thought this was a checkraise in my earlier post). If he has KKxx or TTxx he is betting the flop to protect himself against a straight (almost any good aggressive opponent would not give free cards with this flop). Because he 3-bet preflop- I would not give him credit for having a 6. Really the only hand I'm afraid of is JJxx (maybe K6xx). I think I make a crying call here because I want to send a message that I'm willing to gamble with this villian. I do expect the villian to have a full house here sometimes, but the fact he got caught in a bluff earlier tells me he is capable of making moves.
|
|
#14
03-11-2007, 01:24 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: basic 2-4 hand, raised on river
If you call the river raise I'd guess that you're chopping most of the time.
After zero action on flop or turn Villain has to be pretty sure that you don't have the boat. So he can safely raise the river with the same hand as you have. If Villain has KKxx or TTxx then I think he definitely bets the flop which is quite drawy given your hand range from what happened preflop.
|
|
#15
03-12-2007, 05:02 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: basic 2-4 hand, raised on river
[ QUOTE ]
I know it's opponent dependent but I gave all the info I know about villain in the OP. If I knew who he was and played with him every day I wouldn't ask the forum how to play the hand, because no one would be able to answer the question better than I could. This is the main reason I don't post many hands. [/ QUOTE ] This hand is different from other "it depends" hands. Usually those occur when the decision is so close that it must depend on more factors like "reads." This spot, on the other hand, is very important, since it is almost never close in practice. Most opponents play this situation so predictably that if you can accurately spot their tendency, you can exploit it for a lot of profit by bet/calling your marginal hands or bet/folding your stronger hands with impunity. As for your specific situation, I guess I call against a lot of players at the 2-4 level that sound kind of like what you described, because they typically want to bluff any time you show weakness, but they're also very cautious about "overplaying" their vulnerable made hands.
|
|
#16
03-12-2007, 09:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: basic 2-4 hand, raised on river
yeah I think a lot of profit is to be made by putting your opponent as quickly as possible into one category or the other. In other words the more often you get to this spot and it is a tough decision, the worse you will fare.
|
|
#18
03-14-2007, 12:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: basic 2-4 hand, raised on river
if this was the fitz you could probably re-raise the river for value!
i think it does look like like JJxx a lot here, hands like JJT9 or QJJT 3bet a lot preflop in my experience at 2-4 and 3-6. also a smalller thing i have noticed in a small sample size of hands (10K) is that people betting for value on improved boards i.e. (hitting their house on a flushed/straightened board seem to bet less than the pot, more around the 75% mark, to virtually guarantee a caller. i like call here, even if you are behind it shouldnt do your image any harm as if they think you are uber-lag you should be getting more action on your bigger made hands. how often do you if ever 3-bet post flop with the non-nuts?
|
|
#19
03-14-2007, 02:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: basic 2-4 hand, raised on river
[ QUOTE ]
hi JJJ [/ QUOTE ] Thats the only hand he can have that beats you. Villan never has KK here because he wouldnt give a free card on the flop. He either has JJ, AQ or air. I would probably think for a while and call. Its definately a tough situation that could go either way. Its very player dependant. I just said I would call because I assume I have no reads and its against the average player.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
