Why do they get to me sometimes and not others?

[Kasrielle]

I've only been playing poker for about a year and I'm the first to admit that I'm average at best. (Ok - compared to 2+2ers I suck big time, compared to everybody else I'm low average...) But I'm trying to study the game - both the math and the psychology - and am working hard at improving my play. And I'm really trying to concentrate on making every decision be the best I can, so even if I'm beat I can feel ok about the way I played the hand. And I'm finding that this attitude generally helps me to avoid major tilt.

But sometimes...

So tonight I was playing in a $1 18 player S&G, and doing ok. We get mid way through, down to the final table, and a player that had been quiet up to now starts bluffing big time. He's coming over the top of my raises, and going all in. The first time this happened I had TPTK, he had position, and I wasn't going to call off my stack so I folded. He showed the bluff, called me a donk, and generally acted like a douche. He reminded me of that horrible kid at the WSOP ME - Eric something? - the one who had the nerve to call Jamie Gold an ass, and kept getting time penelties for saying the F word... That Eric kid made me crazy, and this guy did, too.

Maybe it's because I'm probably old enough to be his mother, but his lousy winning attitude sent me round the bend. I felt incredibly disrespected and just went crazy. Ended up blowing most of my stack, but got a run of good cards and built back up to over 5000 from under 400 - once or twice doubling up through him.

Now he's on a mission to make me crazy (or maybe he was just really good at making me feel that way...) He's showing bluff after bluff and now is way out in front - which upsets me more because I don't think he deserves is because he is acting so horrible. So now I'm really tilting.

Finally he and I were in a pot - flop came and we both checked - I made a set on the turn. I raised, he reraised, I'm convinced he was trying once again to rob me blind, and go AI. He insticalled - had preflop trash but made a well disguised straight and busted me.

Getting busted was a ton worse because it was him, and because he laughed and cat called and continued to tell me what a terrible player I am. I wanted to throw the monitor through the wall.

Ok - so I know that clearly the biggest emotional leak in my game is dealing with a bad winner. And I know the easiest fix is to turn off chat. But I enjoy the small talk that happens sometimes - saying nice hand - being polite and saying TY if somebody compliments my play.

Does anyone else get steamed by a bad winner? What is it about them? And what advice can you give a 47 year old woman on how to deal with rude kids? Am I expecting too much?

[lynxman73]

You seem like a very nice and compassionate lady, but I don't think that's any good for poker if you want to get good at it. My advice is that you should be paying attention to this person's cards and how they are playing their hands. Why are you thinking about anything else but gathering information on this person's tendencies and exploiting them? If you're dedicated enough to study the game like this, then you should be dedicated enough to develop the mental toughness it takes to succeed. You said you enjoy the small talk at the table. If I were you I would just shut the chat off for the next X number of times you play (not because it will keep you off tilt if somebody is doing something you don't like, but to desocialize yourself from the other players and learn to see them as your opponents not your friends). Once you do this, I think you'll find it far easier to deal with all types of people because you'll simply feel so far removed that you won't be compelled to judge people, you will merely observe. I only play cash games, and when I buy in, I no longer consider my buy in my money. Of course I can pick it up and leave with it anytime I want to, but once I buy in I believe that money belongs to the table, as if I've loaned it to an unreliable friend and there is no guarantee I'll see it again. This may seem unrelated, but my point is when some person showing bluffs and calling me a fish wins a hand from me, I don't care because I'm so disconnected from both them and whatever I'm playing for. If you are really serious about improving your play you need to take this step. Best of luck.

Adam

[omaha]

I play stars mtts, a very aggro game, I raise everything first in, and will bet half pot all the time until someone calls.

When someone shows aggression, i back off, UNLESS i have the goods. Because i tend to tilt the live tables at $11 and $22 tables, people realise i am running over the table, and always make remarks like 'cant wait until i get a hand against you"

Funny thing is, i think i play a conservative game. I actively try to steal the blinds when first in, then try to steal on the flop, often regardless of my cards.

After that, though, I play according to odds, etc. Getting a disguised straight is the best! No one believes I have it, and they see me raising and shoving, then call with their overpair. Table massively goes on tilt, and i go back to thieving straight away.

My point is, that this person may not be as stupid as you think. So he bluffed you out of a few hands. WHo cares? Many , many occasions i have deliberately folded what i knew was the best hand. If you have A rag, with a two tone flop A high, how much do you want to pay to find out you are prolly outkicked? The game is not called no limit for a reason.

My thoughts. Preflop, when you have the goods, rr and shove flops.

Else, just play your cards. You dont have to win all the pots, or even 20% of them. Make the right decision, then things flow from there.

Another thing, why not keep the pot small? ie check call a bit more (though i personally hate doing this!) I like to get a hand, or a good draw, and bet. Problem is, against a lag or a maniac, the variance will get to you.

[Kasrielle]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were you I would just shut the chat off for the next X number of times you play (not because it will keep you off tilt if somebody is doing something you don't like, but to desocialize yourself from the other players and learn to see them as your opponents not your friends). Once you do this, I think you'll find it far easier to deal with all types of people because you'll simply feel so far removed that you won't be compelled to judge people, you will merely observe. I only play cash games, and when I buy in, I no longer consider my buy in my money. Of course I can pick it up and leave with it anytime I want to, but once I buy in I believe that money belongs to the table, as if I've loaned it to an unreliable friend and there is no guarantee I'll see it again. This may seem unrelated, but my point is when some person showing bluffs and calling me a fish wins a hand from me, I don't care because I'm so disconnected from both them and whatever I'm playing for. If you are really serious about improving your play you need to take this step. Best of luck.

Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this notion of being disconnected.I think that will be the easiest way to become more mentally tough. And the thing is - I do this successfully in my day job. I think the difference is that I'm confident in my abilities in my job, and therefore am not affected by somebody else's behaviour. I'm not nearly as confident at poker (yet!) so I fall for the old "have to prove myself" trap.

Ok - chat off.

[Kasrielle]

[ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is, i think i play a conservative game. I actively try to steal the blinds when first in, then try to steal on the flop, often regardless of my cards.

After that, though, I play according to odds, etc. Getting a disguised straight is the best! No one believes I have it, and they see me raising and shoving, then call with their overpair. Table massively goes on tilt, and i go back to thieving straight away.

My point is, that this person may not be as stupid as you think. So he bluffed you out of a few hands. WHo cares? Many , many occasions i have deliberately folded what i knew was the best hand. If you have A rag, with a two tone flop A high, how much do you want to pay to find out you are prolly outkicked? The game is not called no limit for a reason.

My thoughts. Preflop, when you have the goods, rr and shove flops.

Else, just play your cards. You dont have to win all the pots, or even 20% of them. Make the right decision, then things flow from there.

Another thing, why not keep the pot small? ie check call a bit more (though i personally hate doing this!) I like to get a hand, or a good draw, and bet. Problem is, against a lag or a maniac, the variance will get to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh - I never thought he was stupid. He was playing a very effective game. I got caught up in his tactics (which was his goal.) Again - no more chat feature for me.

I've been burned several times when I check call or otherwise slowplay my hand, so I tend to bet out unless I have the absolute nuts. Depending on the texture of the board, I'll slow down or bet out - if I get drawn out on, I want it to cost them something. Some guys just see that gutshot and don't care what it costs them - and I know I can't help that beat...

Funny thing is - I'd rather be playing smallball. Yet you clearly got the impression I wasn't. What told you that?

[PantsOnFire]

Every poker player goes through this. Unfortunately, your general character will dictate how badly it affects you so that can vary greatly from player to player.

Over time and with experience, these types of guys will affect you less and less and as you get know the game better, you will actually welcome them because they are generally more easy to exploit.

If you are sucessful in life, then I'm sure losing $1 is not going to affect you financially. Put that into perspective and relax. I know these guys can be grating. If you are feeling adventurous, ask these guys for advice. Say you are a beginner and ask them what you did wrong. Play the victim. You might actually get some insight into how he is playing and he might then take it easy on you which is a big mistake.

[RydenStoompala]

I have not had the chat function enabled online in four years' time and I doubt that I am missing anything important. A lot of other people are missing a lot of money, but I don't think there are any comments I would have enjoyed. If you cannot handle online douchebags, do not play online.

[omaha]

[ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is - I'd rather be playing smallball. Yet you clearly got the impression I wasn't. What told you that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmmmmmm, how do i answer this without sounding like a misogynist chavaunistic pig?

You are a 47 year old female, prolly with a couple of nice kids, playing in a dollar mtt. By the language of your articulate post you are well educated, can string a sentence together and sound quite nice. You even fold your towels nicely on the rack so when your friends come around they know you take pride in the appearance of your house

So, where is your killer instinct? The crazy biitch inside? The psycho on the table that pushes people around? The shover of all ins?

Peoples natural emotions is to get along with others, which translates into check and call. Add to that the total stupidity of 'i slowplay the nuts' (again, i say again, not to harrass you, but its a totally idiotic thing to do in 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999997 5% of cases). Unfortunately these emotions turn you into a loose passive donkey fish who gets carved up in three seconds flat by someone who can read a pf starting hand chart.

Heres my theory. Most womens emotions are stronger than mens, and they lack the ability to literally shake up the table, like it has to be done. Women need to get along with others to feel good about themselves, whereas most men would rather win on the felt and not give a hoot about who they have just skinned alive.

This is not to say that one is right and wrong (or the obvious situation that some men and women play vice versa to what I have suggested) but i think its a fair generalisation.

So, in answer (long winded, i know!) is that you play small ball because you are deathly afraid to put yourself on the line by raising, and betting and shoving when you should be. You justify your passive behaviour by monsters under the bed, 'little fish are sweet', and being thankful when a maniac busts out 'well i would have been a bit more careful than him'

I have a female friend at live poker who used to play a bit like you. She knew all the moves (that never worked against fish) and I saw her a couple of occasions check the flop with a monster, just HOPING that someone would bet the turn so she could raise. BUt, what if someone wanted to craise her? Her play at the end was sooooooo passive and bad it was just plain bad

Gave her a couple of hints, and now she is a crazy psycho biatch, who plays and puts the pressure where it belongs, on THE OTHER PLAYER. SHe gets rid of other players, and just generally is a vvvv good player now, simply by not slowplaying, then playing a small stack (or against a small stack) vvvvvvvv aggro. Indeed, I would much rather play against her boyfriend than her!

SO, just get in contact with your crazed inner psycho and use that for your aggression and stop playing small ball WHERE APPROPRIATE

[SuperPokerJedi]

Eric Molina I believe is the guy but Jamie Gold is a donk imo.

Of course there have been times when I've lost to guys because 'it was personal'. Anytime this happens I tell myself not to get personal. Poker is a game of probabilty and psychology not individual egos. It is a measure of a Long-Term game of strategy which is only measured after a long time with given results. You can't force action against opponents the cards invetiably decide.

Given that I don't think you played badly. ul to get all=in there vs a straight but you still had outs and a great hand. Stick in there and gl on the tables [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[justscott]

I know what happened to me this week that made me happy. It sorta relates, i got stacked by a loud mouth that called my big PP with trash PF all in and ran his mouth as he had been doing the whole tourney. Anyway i noted him and sure enough there he was playing live later in the week. Long story short i stacked him and he insta left the room its those small moments in life....