Playing pairs OOP on rags board

linuxrocks · #1 10-31-2007, 02:56 AM

Hi guys,

I am trying limit as a recreational change from 400NL. I understand the basic concepts of Poker well, but still very newbie at limit. Let me start my learning with this question.

How do I play good pairs like 77-JJ OOP ? Especially from SB, I am confused as to whether 3-bet or not. If I decide to call what's my plan on small card flops like below

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: linuxrocks is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, linuxrocks calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
linuxrocks checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, linuxrocks ??

If I call this flop and see this, what's my plan?

Turn: (6.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
linuxrocks checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, linuxrocks ??

Obviously, if I thought my 99 was good on the flop, I can also call the turn. Does it come down to reads then? I opted to check/raise and shut down on the river. Is that bad at these kind of stakes?

BadBigBabar · #2 10-31-2007, 03:09 AM

the flop is an easy checkraise - overpairs are quite strong in limit. you can also 3bet them preflop. position isn't as important in limit as it is in nl - it's more about value betting and pushing small edges both pre and postflop with your good hands.

here, i would checkraise flop and lead turn and river until someone raises you back.

Bulletproof Monk · #3 10-31-2007, 03:17 AM

raise the flop

the rest is fine

as played i guess we call the turn and fold UTG+1 raises, then reevaluate on the river

neurotiq · #4 10-31-2007, 03:47 AM

I raise this guy on the flop. This is a hand that I want to protect this sequence of events could not have worked out more perfectly for you in protecting this hand. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

LukeSLTS · #5 10-31-2007, 09:39 AM

I prefer calling preflop as opposed to three betting in this situation. The flop provides a good opportunity for you to check-raise. With the check raise you take control of the hand and fire out a bet on the turn and again on the river if nobody raises. In this case you made the awkward play of check-raising the flop and then checking the turn. This puts you in an awkward spot. The hand will be easier to play if you lead out on the turn. Right now we don't have a good idea of the CO holdings. He may betting here with just two overs and the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or he may have a hand that has us drawing dead. If we lead out on the turn and get raised by some who called two on this flop it is safe to dump our one pair against most players.

TimovieMan · #6 10-31-2007, 10:06 AM

In limit the power of pocket pairs is not so great as in NL, so imho unless you have pocket tens or higher, you shouldn't 3-bet preflop. Calling is the way to go.

Checkraising appears the best option on the flop. Not only do you have a good hand, but you protect it as well by forcing three players to coldcall two bets.

Even with the third spade coming on the turn I'd still bet out after check-raising the flop.
If you get raised on the turn, you're most likely in a heap of trouble, and it's probably safe to let your hand go...

Fantam · #7 10-31-2007, 10:09 AM

In this particular hand, I would have c/r the flop and led the turn.

Without reads, I would usually limp 77 & 88 pf from EP, but raise from MP onwards. I would raise 99 + pf from any position.

I would also usually call a pf raise from the BB with 22 - 99 and 3-bet from any position with TT + .

36CampusAve · #8 10-31-2007, 10:18 AM

As played, I check-raise the flop although I think betting out is better. Bet turn and call down if raised behind you.

maverickai · #9 10-31-2007, 12:57 PM

grunching... automatic check raise the flop. This will protect your hand against pple with some random Ax rag.

If you had check-raised the flop, then you'll wanna bet out on the turn, even if a possible flush falls. The villians might just holding overcards like KQ or some small pair. Can't give anyone credit for hitting a flush until aggression is shown against your bet.

But given you have called on the flop, I dun mind raising the turn after CO's bet, to make those with single spade pay 2BB for trying to hit the last spade on the river. And obviously if there's a re-raise you can muck safely.

Blzdwrath · #10 10-31-2007, 03:03 PM

The flop is an OBVIOUS c/r. My question is why people aren't advocating raising the turn if you can get two players to fold by making them face 2 extra sized bets cold (this also makes you look like you are representing a flush, which may get a better hand to fold)this would also improve your odds if only the CO comes along. The threat of a flush is obviously not as great HU (correct me if i'm wrong). I could easily see the CO playing over cards on this pretty uncoordinated board.

Any thoughts on this line?

Added note:
The turn raise may also accomplish two things:
1. Let you know you are probably behind to a flush or flopped set if your opponent 3-bets you.
2. It may buy you a free showdown if a scare card drops on the river.