AKs TPTK, line check

[Woody317]

I may be missing something but i think check-raising all in on turn is the worst option. A decent TAG (like his stats suggest) just isn't going to have Ax in this spot. His range is heavily weighted towards mid-low pocket pairs and suited connectors.

I think either hero's drawing to 5 (or less) outs or villain is. So why would we want to give villain the chance to play perfectly and call with his 2 pair or better hands and fold his bluffs. To me check raising is ugly in this spot.

I'd prefer tojust lead out turn to make the hand so much easier but now that we've checked the turn we should call and give him a chance to bluff again on the river.

Bet>>c/c>>>c/r

[wooziephantom]

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I may be missing something but i think check-raising all in on turn is the worst option.

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I actually agree and have to go back on what I said in my first reply. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Against this type of opponent it's not a good play, but I still feel that c/c and c/f river is just as bad.. U don't get any information on where u stand.. It's a clear bet, and in most instances a fold to a raise without good reads

[anthb7210p]

If you have some history with him ie. he has been floating a lot, CRAI looks good. River is an easy fold.

[Jay_Whufc]

I called and he flipped over 55. Nice. In all honestly when I make that call Im often behind but at the time I just couldnt see him flat calling pre flop with position with 88/1010/A10 type hands. His river bet at the time seemed very odd to me aswell, definately not a VB as like many of you said my line does not suggest I have a hand as strong as TPTK. Someone before said it and I agree, this was either the nuts or air.
Agreed that betting the turn makes my decisions so much easier in this spot though!

[kroeliewoelie]

The fact that the turn is a blank makes the turn even easier to bet. If he's decent he know he doesn't have the odds to call with a straight draw with only one card to come. Sets and 2pair will raise the turn and if he's bluffraising the turn he's too good (for me at least).

[Woody317]

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I actually agree and have to go back on what I said in my first reply. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Against this type of opponent it's not a good play, but I still feel that c/c and c/f river is just as bad.. U don't get any information on where u stand.. It's a clear bet, and in most instances a fold to a raise without good reads

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Yeah c/c turn c/f river is pretty gross too. I only said fold initially because i think the 9 on the river completed a few hands for villan.

I think this is a clear bet on the turn but if it's against a real maniac i'll sometimes c/c turn and any river because i under-rep the hand so much. But that way you have to be prepared for surprises when he flips over the nuts.

[ronitonline]

I've seen about 300 "fold" responses without a single wording of villians range? Wtf do you put villian on, simply saying fold gives no in-depth analysis of anything and just makes u look like you are trying to act like a credible player IMO.

I am not saying this is a fold or call as I am undecided ATM, but just saying fold is retarted, what do you think villians range is here?

p.s I lead turn, and probably shove turn as played.

[rrrorrim]

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Wtf do you put villian on, simply saying fold gives no in-depth analysis of anything and just makes u look like you are trying to act like a credible player IMO.

p.s I lead turn, and probably shove turn as played.

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As played, I think it's best to fold on the river. Because Hero didn't push on the turn, he lost information he could have had about Villain's hand. And his c/c gave Villain misinformation (seems Hero did it not to be misleading, but unintentionally). And Villain responded to that misinformation with extreme aggression...

The whole hand was thrown out of balance because of the c/c. And because of this, Hero doesn't know enough about Villain's holdings to put his entire stack on the line... so I think he should fold!

I agree with you about pushing on the turn... I probably woulda gone all-in on the river after that. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[cooker3]

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I've seen about 300 "fold" responses without a single wording of villians range? Wtf do you put villian on, simply saying fold gives no in-depth analysis of anything and just makes u look like you are trying to act like a credible player IMO.

I am not saying this is a fold or call as I am undecided ATM, but just saying fold is retarted, what do you think villians range is here?

p.s I lead turn, and probably shove turn as played.

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Basically a overpush on the river usually mean a monster such as a set etc

[EMc]

My personal feeling is that a lot of villains range consists of a float/bluff, where he feels as if he can steal the pot from you on a later street. Id assign about 50% of his range to this. Players with those stats do not call twice in position with a good hand especially against a player like us that often with a made hand.

There is a chance he called here with a weaker ace. He mightve called with AQ or AJ (I doubt it) thinking he can either steal the pot later or OP was raising on the lower end of his range (PP, KQ, SC), calling hte CB and waitin for the turn. Ill give this 15% of his range.

Then there is the times he has something like a 97, J9, again calling planning on outplaying OP later in the hand, by applying pressure or by outflopping his opponent. Another 15%.

Then there are times we are beat. A set, maybe T8 (if we include 97 and J9, T8 must be in the range). This here is 20%

More often than not we are ahead. TPTK is a really strong hand, esp on this board against this opponent. Hence I say we c/r AI on the turn, let him bluff you/float you/attempt to VB with a worse hand and get his ass committed behind or folding putting in a decent amount. This will also establish credibility on your turn checks against him as now everytime you CB and then check the turn doesnt mean you missed.