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  #21  
Old 03-15-2007, 01:20 PM
donkman donkman is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

Knowing the hole cards can not possibly prove colluding. Any hand that you thought indicated collusion could always be explained as a rational play.

Please, give me one possible example that could not be explained otherwise.
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2007, 01:30 PM
pfapfap pfapfap is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

Those who get all worked up thinking people are accusing them of cheating need to relax and focus energies elsewhere. Yes that's the origins of this rule, and yes it's completely obnoxious and more places should emulate the Wynn, but that's not why people are asking. What's your response if someone keeps insisting that he doesn't think you're cheating, but that he just wants to see how you play? Holding tight to the "it's cheating" line paints you into a corner.

Just tell them it's rude and it slows down the game and it's abuse of a rule designed to prevent cheating. Or, better yet, don't worry about it at all and move on to the next hand. I'd rather another player think he's gaining some great inciteful information and keep him focused on trying to "get" me than waste any energy getting bothered by (or even addressing) it myself.

But those of you here who invoke it should get some nut-kicking action.
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2007, 02:32 PM
Wongboy Wongboy is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

[ QUOTE ]
Those who get all worked up thinking people are accusing them of cheating need to relax and focus energies elsewhere. Yes that's the origins of this rule, and yes it's completely obnoxious and more places should emulate the Wynn, but that's not why people are asking. What's your response if someone keeps insisting that he doesn't think you're cheating, but that he just wants to see how you play? Holding tight to the "it's cheating" line paints you into a corner.

Just tell them it's rude and it slows down the game and it's abuse of a rule designed to prevent cheating. Or, better yet, don't worry about it at all and move on to the next hand. I'd rather another player think he's gaining some great inciteful information and keep him focused on trying to "get" me than waste any energy getting bothered by (or even addressing) it myself.

But those of you here who invoke it should get some nut-kicking action.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they insist that they do not think I am cheating, then I tell them that they are abusing the rule and are shooting an angle. If people honestly do not understand the implications of invoking IWTSTH, fine, tell them that they are accusing someone of cheating. If they continue after this has been explained to them, then they have no excuse.

For example, on a recent Vegas trip, there was a husband and wife sitting at the table and we were all getting along great, even to the point of exchanging small jokes / ribbing. They had invited me to go to a strip club with them later that night (apparently they were planning to surprise the guys grandfather).

At one point, the husband said that he had hurt his back picking up something, and the wife kidded him by saying "c'mon, you've never picked up anything heavy in your life." Without thinking, I responded with, "well he picked you up didn't he?" The look on everyones face was all I needed to understand that my comment was inappropriate and not appreciated. I apologized profusely and left the table soon after. I meant no malice, and was drunk / ignorant enough to make the stupid comment. The difference is that once it was clear that my comment was interpreted in a different way than I had intended, I apologized, and I did not make a similar comment again.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:01 PM
felson felson is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

[ QUOTE ]
Knowing the hole cards can not possibly prove colluding. Any hand that you thought indicated collusion could always be explained as a rational play.

Please, give me one possible example that could not be explained otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

getting into a raising war with another player while holding rags, while a third player calls down and is trapped. then you call on the river in order to appear that you had a made hand.

i hate IWTSTH, and even this scenario could be avoided by folding on the river, but this play cannot be explained without collusion.
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:02 PM
DavidC DavidC is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In all fairness, I sometimes involk IWTSTH, but only when someone puts in the last aggression and doesn't show their hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's so nice that you have that double standard.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Just FYI, I "believe in" a showdown system that is followed according to house rules.

On the river the showdown should happen either in order in relation to the button, or starting with last aggression then clockwise from there.

I prefer the aggression -> clockwise manner, and therefore I ask the aggressor (even if he was only the PF aggressor) to show first.

Now... this may mean that I'm slightly neurotic, whatever.

I don't use IWTSTH unless someone's avoiding showing down when it's their turn, or if I honestly suspect collusion... which sometimes I do, but I've never been right about that.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:41 PM
PantsOnFire PantsOnFire is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

I think a one to one ratio would be more reasonable.

Saying "No, I'm kinda embarrassed" and tossing your cards to the dealer would also be reasonable.
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:28 PM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

[ QUOTE ]
You are accusing people of cheating, regardless.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you're not. Just because that was the intention of the rule, that doesn't mean that's what they are doing. Just because that's how you see it, that doesn't mean everyone is seeing it that way.

In fact, I'd say given that many don't realize it was to prevent cheating, cheating isn't the first thing that springs to their mind. They're more pissed/embarassed that they have to show a losing hand than being accused of cheating.

I think people get too bent out of shape over this rule. It's like a super-nit test. It gives some nit something to complain about and tell everyone how he knows the origin of the rule. Yippee.

I could care less if someone wants to see my hand. It's funny how some people think it gives too much info, yet don't mind having pokertracker going online. The great majority of people won't even use the info and/or adjust in any way. Usually, they're just comparing what they had to your hand.

b
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:31 PM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

[ QUOTE ]
Or, better yet, don't worry about it at all and move on to the next hand. I'd rather another player think he's gaining some great inciteful information and keep him focused on trying to "get" me than waste any energy getting bothered by (or even addressing) it myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

It really isn't worth the energy to get worked up over it. If anything, getting overly bothered by it is a sign of weakness.

b
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:33 PM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

[ QUOTE ]
If they insist that they do not think I am cheating, then I tell them that they are abusing the rule and are shooting an angle.

[/ QUOTE ]

What angle are they shooting? How is this angle helping them win a pot in question?

b
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2007, 06:03 PM
slickss slickss is offline
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Default Re: Vengefully turning up a guy\'s cards 10x in a row after \"IWTSTH\"

[ QUOTE ]
I responded with, "well he picked you up didn't he?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch! Fat-jokes to a woman while her husband is present is beyond rude - it is right out dangerous!
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