If this wasn't in the blinds, I would have folded...should I anyway?

jmillerdls · #1 07-03-2007, 06:35 PM

Villain had only been at the table a few hands, so no read, but I had been pretty aggressive at the table, and assumed my image was pretty loose aggressive.

I get away from a lot of stuff at these stakes, so it is very unusual for me to do something like this...but I honestly felt like I was good until he called my all-in.

If you get away from this...where?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($26.35)
BB ($46)
UTG ($17.10)
MP ($29.40)
Button ($18.45)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, BB raises to $3.75, Hero calls $2.50.

Turn: ($9.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $7, Hero raises to $21.6, BB calls $14.60.

River: ($52.70) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $52.70

losingdonkey · #2 07-03-2007, 06:45 PM

tough spot, but I think you're behind here. preflop is absolutely fine. Flop is ok though I generally lead for more. His raise shows a lot of strength. I could see A2s, A6, 22 and 66 doing this, but it's best to re-evaluate on the turn. On the turn he yet again shows strength. I'd be inclined to either fold now, or call planning to check/call a small river bet or fold to a big one, but I think all weaker aces are eliminated from his range at this point. Against an unknown, you have to give him credit and fold the turn.

andrew484 · #3 07-03-2007, 06:56 PM

I fold to the bet on the turn. I think your play is fine up to that point. You say that you felt like you were good until he called your all-in -- I think players need to be careful when they make plays under these circumstances. That is, in situations where you think, "If he calls me then I am behind", you really have to question why you are putting youself in that situation in the first place. It seems to me that, if that's the case, all your check-raise will accomplish is fold out worse hands.

Bowlboy · #4 07-03-2007, 06:57 PM

These types of hands are tough especially oop with nothing but TP3K. I think that you are ahead of a lot of the hands that could be raising your cbet on the flop such as any middle pp, A7-AT. Keep in mind that you're often going to get raised lighter on the flop because open raising from the SB practically never gets any credit.

I think you're either WA/WB here so instead of calling the flop and re-evaluating the turn( this line so often blows unless you have a read that villain will give up and check behind on the turn if he was raising you without AQ+ or 2pair/set etc.) so why not 3bet the flop. It's cheaper than calling down, and pretty much defines your hand as tptk. For me the hand would play out much easier, because 2pair or a set is probably going to push over your 3bet given the flush possiblilty. I think this approach here wins us the pot now more often when we are ahead and helps us get away easier when we're behind. Also remember that this is $25NL and villain is unkown(likely horrible [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).

jmillerdls · #5 07-03-2007, 07:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold to the bet on the turn. I think your play is fine up to that point. You say that you felt like you were good until he called your all-in -- I think players need to be careful when they make plays under these circumstances. That is, in situations where you think, "If he calls me then I am behind", you really have to question why you are putting youself in that situation in the first place. It seems to me that, if that's the case, all your check-raise will accomplish is fold out worse hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed...that may have been a bad way to think about it. I wasn't going to fold at this point, because I thought I was ahead. So, I could call, and then deal with the river...but my feeling was that if I just went all in, I would get flush draws to call as well...I'd get that extra bit, when I wouldn't be getting it if I waited till the river. Is this bad thinking? If I'm not going to fold...get the extra money from flush draws that might be playing aggressively here?

jmillerdls · #6 07-03-2007, 07:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
These types of hands are tough especially oop with nothing but TP3K. I think that you are ahead of a lot of the hands that could be raising your cbet on the flop such as any middle pp, A7-AT. Keep in mind that you're often going to get raised lighter on the flop because open raising from the SB practically never gets any credit.

I think you're either WA/WB here so instead of calling the flop and re-evaluating the turn( this line so often blows unless you have a read that villain will give up and check behind on the turn if he was raising you without AQ+ or 2pair/set etc.) so why not 3bet the flop. It's cheaper than calling down, and pretty much defines your hand as tptk. For me the hand would play out much easier, because 2pair or a set is probably going to push over your 3bet given the flush possiblilty. I think this approach here wins us the pot now more often when we are ahead and helps us get away easier when we're behind. Also remember that this is $25NL and villain is unkown(likely horrible [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting...not a play I make often at all. So, you re-pop it to 10-12? Then, fold if he comes back at me? Stop if he calls? Not a play in my arsenal, so I definitely would have felt uncomfortable doing it.

losingdonkey · #7 07-03-2007, 07:09 PM

3betting the flop is a bluff and total spew that prices you in to the hand.

Bowlboy · #8 07-03-2007, 07:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3betting the flop is a bluff and total spew that prices you in to the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a bluff if there is a good possiblility villain is going to raise your cbet because he figures you're just stealing anyway. I see a lot of cbets getting raised light at $25NL and a steal situation where the stealee has position on you is all the more reason for him to raise you. Think about it. Hero has a huge range here, and the cbet raise is going to fold out anything that is'nt a FD/set/2pair or at least TP ok good kicker.

Womble · #9 07-03-2007, 07:17 PM

What do people think about bet/folding the turn?

losingdonkey · #10 07-03-2007, 07:19 PM

he has no reads on villain and has no reason to assume he raises c-bets with worse than TPGK. If you 3bet to 12 here, what do you do when he inevitably shoves? You have to understand that against an unknown, a c-bet raise drastically narrows your opponents' range.