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#41
10-16-2007, 10:50 PM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you think the government therefore has a right to prevent you from eating one? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. [/ QUOTE ] OK, please answer the following: 1) where does this right come from? 2) how do governments have rights at all? [/ QUOTE ] 1) 10th Amendment to the US constitution gives states the rights to create laws that do not undermine the laws set forth by the constitution itself. The "law" preventing the consumption of hamburgers will be allowed, unless it is challenged and brought to the the US Supreme Court. The US Supreme court is the final say on any rights not specifically set forth in the Bill of Rights, and also the interpretation of those rights (article 6 I believe). 2) Totally out of the scope of this discussion. 
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#42
10-16-2007, 11:04 PM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
[ QUOTE ]
1) 10th Amendment to the US constitution gives states the rights [/ QUOTE ] BZZZT. Wrong. Go read it again and start over.
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#43
10-16-2007, 11:15 PM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 1) 10th Amendment to the US constitution gives states the rights [/ QUOTE ] BZZZT. Wrong. Go read it again and start over. [/ QUOTE ] Deleted That's not how a debate works, sorry. If make a statement that is incorrect, you can't simply tell me I'm wrong, not tell me why, and ask me to prove the opposition myself.
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#44
10-16-2007, 11:17 PM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
Rather than watch you two go around in circles, here is the text of the amendment:
[ QUOTE ] The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. [/ QUOTE ] I assume PVN is relying on the last phrase.
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#45
10-16-2007, 11:25 PM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
iron,
The US Constitution does not, as written, "give rights" to states. It says powers that it doesn't delegate to the US are reserved to the states or the people. Regardless, I think pvn is guilty of argumentum ad nitium.
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#46
10-16-2007, 11:39 PM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
[ QUOTE ]
iron, The US Constitution does not, as written, "give rights" to states. It says powers that it doesn't delegate to the US are reserved to the states or the people. Regardless, I think pvn is guilty of argumentum ad nitium. [/ QUOTE ] My Latin sucks (obv!) but I believe you are saying "I think pvn is guilty of 'initial argument'". What do you mean? Actually I really just want to know if a state has the "right" to outlaw hamburger consumption. Seriously, because right now I still think they do.
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#47
10-17-2007, 12:57 AM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] wtf? Do you actually believe that smoking is a right protected by the US Constitution? [/ QUOTE ] 9th amendment [/ QUOTE ] The 9th amendment ALLOWS for enactment of other rights not specifically set out by the constitution, it does not provide those rights in of itself. Try again. [/ QUOTE ] Totally wrong. The Bill of Rights is a limit on government, not a provider of rights. The 9th amendment says that just because a right isn't listed, doesn't mean you don't have that right.
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#48
10-17-2007, 01:18 AM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] wtf? Do you actually believe that smoking is a right protected by the US Constitution? [/ QUOTE ] 9th amendment [/ QUOTE ] The 9th amendment ALLOWS for enactment of other rights not specifically set out by the constitution, it does not provide those rights in of itself. Try again. [/ QUOTE ] This is the biggest problem with people who don't understand the Bill of Rights. The government doesn't GIVE you rights, you have those rights to begin with; natural law or what have you. The Bill of Rights is to PREVENT government intervention in the listed topics.
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#49
10-17-2007, 01:26 AM
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Re: Californian city bans smoking in apartments and condos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] wtf? Do you actually believe that smoking is a right protected by the US Constitution? [/ QUOTE ] 9th amendment [/ QUOTE ] The 9th amendment ALLOWS for enactment of other rights not specifically set out by the constitution, it does not provide those rights in of itself. Try again. [/ QUOTE ] Totally wrong. The Bill of Rights is a limit on government, not a provider of rights. The 9th amendment says that just because a right isn't listed, doesn't mean you don't have that right. [/ QUOTE ] On the bolded parts...huh? On the 9th amendment, so put all the pieces together for me. How does the 9th amendment protect our "right to smoke"? I understand the 9th amendment to protect citizens from being denied fundamental rights simply because they were not enumerated in the constitution. But how is smoking a fundamental right protected by the 9th amendment? It seems like if you could apply smoking to this you could apply it to just about anything.
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