Will you show me what you have if I fold?

KenProspero · #1 01-09-2007, 06:10 PM

Not sure whether this is the right forum, but I'll try it here.

Recently, sitting at a 1/2 nl game at Foxwoods. I had folded pre-flop, so was an observer. MP1 (imo weak player) had raised pf, flop (1 spade) and turn (1 spade). After the turn, MP1 and Button (imo best player at the table) were heads up. When the third spade hit the river, MP1 bet $50 into a pot of about 275-300. This leaves MP1 with about $150 left. Button, says all in (after a normal pause).

After thinking a while, MP1 asks -- "Will you show me what you have if I fold?"

What is the consensus on the correct response and would it depend on whehter button has actually hit the flush?

What actually happened -- Button said nothing and stared. MP1 asked again, Button Stared. MP1 folds. I think this is the best response for anyone who is properly in a 1/2 NL game.

SplawnDarts · #2 01-09-2007, 06:16 PM

It's a perfectly legitimate question. My answer is usually "no" (always in my least sincere voice if I want a call) although sometimes if I've got a card in the hole (holdem or stud) that could be part of a monster or a midget and feel like it I'll offer to show one.

PantsOnFire · #3 01-09-2007, 06:45 PM

99% of the time this is the best course of action. However, depending on several factors, you may want to play this game. As with any time you show your cards when you don't have to, you need a good reason which is usually some psychological goal. But this one is even tricker because you could give off a tell.

I would say only the most experienced players with an edge on the table should be the ones doing anything other than what button did. They are the ones who will know what showing both or one cards or even responding to that question will accomplish. Most are better off shutting up, myself included.

Wongboy · #4 01-09-2007, 07:43 PM

If I want a call, I say "no". If I want a fold, I say, "sure".

If villian folds and I said "sure", then if I want to keep the mood light I show my bluff, but try to do so in a non-mean spirited way - maybe just show villian, then insta-muck before anyone can invoke SOSA. OTOH, if I want to try and tilt villian, then I insta-muck after promising to show. It is usally easy to figure out which course will cause the most positive EV increase in the table mood.

NYCNative · #5 01-09-2007, 07:43 PM

I have very little casino experience but one time I was playing and I raised an EP limper with tens in position in a 1/2 NL game. Everyone folded but the limper. Flop came with a Queen and two rags, two hearts. He checked, I continuation bet and he pushed all-in. I thought about it and then finally he says "If you fold, I'll show you." I didn't know what that meant but I instafolded anyway (I was shellshocked from being stacked set-over-set only a couple of hands before) and he said, "Damn, I thought that would make you call" as he showed me AQ.

Small sample size, but that guy asked me hoping to entice a call. He never asked me to show but I lied and said Jacks. Eh, close enough...

Wongboy · #6 01-09-2007, 07:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have very little casino experience but one time I was playing and I raised an EP limper with tens in position in a 1/2 NL game. Everyone folded but the limper. Flop came with a Queen and two rags, two hearts. He checked, I continuation bet and he pushed all-in. I thought about it and then finally he says "If you fold, I'll show you." I didn't know what that meant but I instafolded anyway (I was shellshocked from being stacked set-over-set only a couple of hands before) and he said, "Damn, I thought that would make you call" as he showed me AQ.

Small sample size, but that guy asked me hoping to entice a call. He never asked me to show but I lied and said Jacks. Eh, close enough...

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are semi-friendly with Villian, and he asks this question, then saying "sure" in the right tone usually gets him to fold. Basically, you are implying that you will give him a bit of "air cover", without saying so directly. Of course, assuming that you have trash, there is really no way to proceed after the hand without destroying the friendly atmosphere, and saying nothing usually also invokes a fold, so it may be best to say nothing.

This is different than an unsolicited offer to show, which may be interpreted as a trick and may lead to a call.

bav · #7 01-09-2007, 07:50 PM

Totally depends on the table. But we're talking NL1/2 here...If I like the other guy and want to keep the atmosphere pleasant, I'll often agree to show. I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've seen someone ask this question at NL1/2 and then call, regardless what the answer is. So whether you say "yes", "no", "maybe" or nothing at all really isn't going to matter much in practice since the baby NL players who ask this have almost always already given up the pot in their mind and are not trying to get a read.

"I'll make no promises" is my standard response. And my least friendly response is "gimme $xx and I'll show ya" (where XX is about one-third the size of the bet). The latter has replaced "no" in my repertoire--I think it confuses the folks trying to get a read from the answer and it CAN actually be profitable.

TomBrooks · #8 01-09-2007, 09:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I want a call, I say "no". If I want a fold, I say, "sure".

[/ QUOTE ]

But if you are willing to go along with his request if he will fold, wouldn't that make a logical opponent more inclined to call? And if you wanted a call wouldn't that make a smart Villain more inclined to fold?

Percula · #9 01-09-2007, 09:25 PM

If I am feel frisky I will come back with "I'll show for half the bet". It is amazing who many times I have earned half of my bet with that line.

And no I never show unless I have to or have been paid to.

AKQJ10 · #10 01-09-2007, 09:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...then because I think a little cheating is OK if it's lighthearted insta-muck before anyone can invoke SOSA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't deal professionally, but if I did you would probably get away with this once before I caught on.

Iterations 2 through n, the muck would be protected in such a way that I would catch your cards and display them to the table. (If I got flak, I would catch your cards and hold them face down for long enough that anyone who wished would have time to ask.)

When people show their neighbor then ignorantly toss them into the muck, that's harmless and best ignored. You, in constrast, cheat.