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#1
12-29-2006, 08:15 PM
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Big Laydowns at High Stakes Poker (specifically Daniel Negreanu)
The TV Forum is quite fun but usually lacking in strategy discussions. This is a strategy question geared towards those who play at levels I probably never will reach which is why I post it here. I love lurking here and seeing how High Stakes players think and you can hopefully shed some light on something that's intrigued me.
I was watching replays of GSN's High Stakes Poker when Daniel Negreanu recieved his infamous succession of coolers - flopping big hands, often enough the absolute nuts, and then getting beat on the turn or river. Negreanu seemed to know he was beat however he still made every single crying call. I was under the impression that one facet of being a great player is the ability to make big laydowns when you are beat. Not to say that every hand he called was obvious but on one of the hands in particular announcer Gabe Kaplan even said that that one was relatively easy, one that Daniel would realize later on. I remember reading a baseball pitcher say something like, "People think that a pro pitcher can just put the ball wherever he wants on command but it's not like that at all" as a way of pointing out that the pin-point accuracy that some baseball fans might feel is a given is vastly overstated. In the same vein am I putting unrealistic expectations on the High Stakes professionals (on the show and in the Big Game)? Does a pro really need this in their arsenal to be a profitable player or do they view such crying calls as a part of the game? Or do pros really do possess the ability to make big laydowns but what I saw on TV is too small a sample size, one possibly brought on by players not wanting to get bluffed on TV? 
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#3
12-30-2006, 01:14 AM
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Re: Big Laydowns at High Stakes Poker (specifically Daniel Negreanu)
Copy it and re-post it yourself. I think he's awful btw. Bad beats aside and maybe because it's TV, but the guy is an ATM who refuses to fold.
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#5
12-31-2006, 01:48 AM
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Re: Big Laydowns at High Stakes Poker (specifically Daniel Negreanu)
I've seen Negreanu make a number of great laydowns in his time. He's certainly capable of it. Yeah, he made some bad calls in HSP, but, as mentioned, he was being absolutely pummelled with bad fortune. He had to be tilting to some degree. He had flopped the nuts or near nuts a few times and seen all sorts of other varieties of bad luck. He got to a point of extreme frustration, and he just developed that sick curiosity -- the old "Oh boy, I've just got to see how I got screwed over this time" -- instead of properly analyzing the hand in an emotionally detached fashion. Tilting/steaming does that to people. At least that's my take on what happened.
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#6
01-01-2007, 02:02 PM
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Re: Big Laydowns at High Stakes Poker (specifically Daniel Negreanu)
Daniel is not a good HSNL player. He can't fold. He didn't have "coolers" so much as terrible play himself, such as when he called a flop raise on an A A x board with a flush draw (Doyle flopped a full) and then hit his draw and went broke. Or when Gus c/r'ed him all in on the river...there were only higher full houses and quads that Gus would do that with, and DN still called with bottom FH. Pretty bad stuff, over and over.
I watched every episode for several hours one day, and DN sucked for real. He also tried "the big game" (not on TV), lost $1 million, and said he's not going back for awhile.
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#8
12-30-2006, 03:07 AM
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Re: Big Laydowns at High Stakes Poker (specifically Daniel Negreanu)
NYCNative,
per the defition of a strong player via HSNL standards, i think the only players that would meet that criteria from the first 2 seasons would be Alaei, Esfandiari, and to some extent Laak. the others are simple either bad or lack a lot of experience from NL cashgames bc they play big stakes LIMIT. ofc other players are good, obv, (ie harman, brunsons, hansen) but that lineup is generally very soft when compared to the strongest 25/50+ online players like BlD, RekRuL, aba20, Antonius (the latter 2 are in HSP 3 lol). dont assume bc they are on TV playing big stakes zomg that they are superstars, esp Negreanu. he made so many bad plays and calldowns it was hilarious. i dont think he made a single river fold or non-retardedly loose flop/turn peel.
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#10
12-30-2006, 07:58 AM
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Re: Big Laydowns at High Stakes Poker (specifically Daniel Negreanu)
[ QUOTE ]
NYCNative, per the defition of a strong player via HSNL standards, i think the only players that would meet that criteria from the first 2 seasons would be Alaei, Esfandiari, and to some extent Laak. the others are simple either bad or lack a lot of experience from NL cashgames bc they play big stakes LIMIT. ofc other players are good, obv, (ie harman, brunsons, hansen) but that lineup is generally very soft when compared to the strongest 25/50+ online players like BlD, RekRuL, aba20, Antonius (the latter 2 are in HSP 3 lol). dont assume bc they are on TV playing big stakes zomg that they are superstars, esp Negreanu. he made so many bad plays and calldowns it was hilarious. i dont think he made a single river fold or non-retardedly loose flop/turn peel. [/ QUOTE ] interesting. wonder if his book will be worth reading.
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