Straight in 5 facing a monotone board

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Are these the same reasons you would caution against a raise on 5th?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely, with the exception of a 4 flush on 5th street since its not possible.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Poker CPA]

Good Points TT.

BUT

Except our Villian was in perfect spot to raise on 4th to get free card, but he didn't. And coupled with a semi weak call on 3rd with 9, I'm assuming our Villian is a weak/tight player and I don't lose any value here. This hand is going to cost me 3BB more on 5th. (A call, call, call). Your points addressed below, assuming he is weak tight.

1. He RR on 6th and I fold. (Cost 3BB)

2. I'll take my chances against a weak player. My st8 is hidden with two 9s on board.

3. Yes he could suck out but he could have other hands he could call with.

I my point is, against a weak/tight, I'll get an extra bet more times than not. Against a solid player I would maybe call down, and betting into any check. Weak tight could have a wide range of hands to play, especially with my st8 hidden. I'll dance with weak/tight any day.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Good Points TT.

BUT

Except our Villian was in perfect spot to raise on 4th to get free card, but he didn't. And coupled with a semi weak call on 3rd with 9, I'm assuming our Villian is a weak/tight player and I don't lose any value here. This hand is going to cost me 3BB more on 5th. (A call, call, call). Your points addressed below, assuming he is weak tight.

1. He RR on 6th and I fold. (Cost 3BB)

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohh.. thats great. Lets play poker together for now on, I'll be sure to always lag it up only when I have a 3-flush board to get you to fold - just because you raised to see where you are.

Of course I am being sarcastic, but that explains why your line is exploitable - raising to see where you are is the most abused play in the book. Also note a lot of stud players will not raise with a 4 flush in lower limit games, hence we really cannot tell what the villain may hold, for all we know he holds - but he is very likely to hold a redraw at the very least .

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Poker CPA]

We have 5 way action, 15/30 (this is not lower limits), 3 9s out and 2 spades out on 3rd and you play calldown on 5th with a weak/tight? Assuming your right, I can't be that far off being aggressive with a hidden st8 against this type of player. In addition redraws are "a way of life" in stud and I will not run from them especially against a weak/tight. My overall game plan is to pound these guys (or dance if you like) every chance I get. We're risking 3BB, with this situation I'm risking 1BB more.

Weak/tight = CASH. They don't think about what effect their betting actions have on future streets, only the here and now. 3BB or 4BB I'm aggressive here.

[Poker CPA]

Maybe 15/30 is lower limits, I quess its relative. But not too many of these games around, online or live.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
We have 5 way action, 15/30 (this is not lower limits), 3 9s out and 2 spades out on 3rd and you play calldown on 5th with a weak/tight? Assuming your right, I can't be that far off being aggressive with a hidden st8 against this type of player. In addition redraws are "a way of life" in stud and I will not run from them especially against a weak/tight. My overall game plan is to pound these guys (or dance if you like) every chance I get. We're risking 3BB, with this situation I'm risking 1BB more.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a straight you want to be showdown bound. Period. Your "risking 1 BB more" is really risking one BB more to see where you stand, have the opponent call then waste you on a later street with a huge c/r, or maybe even a leading bet on the river.

Your option is pure spewing. But your free to keep on playing that way if you want.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[2461Badugi]

Raising sixth >> raising fifth because it's so much better against a four-flush, and would be my default line. Raise-fold really stinks, though.

I'm not anxious to give him enough credit to simply call down from fifth. Of course I hate straight draws and would never have played this hand.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising sixth >> raising fifth because it's so much better against a four-flush, and would be my default line. Raise-fold really stinks, though.

I'm not anxious to give him enough credit to simply call down from fifth. Of course I hate straight draws and would never have played this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

its not even a straight draw, its a 1-gapper in first position!

[Andy B]

Didn't even notice third street. Easy fold.

[blumpkin]

Any opponent, passive or not, will bet this board on 5th no matter what their holding is. Folding is therefore quite foolish. The right course of action is very player dependent. Against some (aggro-monkey) players, I would raise 5th expecting them to 3-bet unconditionally, planning to call the 3-bet and then raise them again on 6th. Against opponents on the passive side, this may be spewage, and just calling 5th is the best play. Moreover, while raising 6th sounds good ("I want to charge his probable draw") it might actually be better to call 6th and call the likely river bluff. Assuming he bets the river 100% of the time, and will not call a raise AND a river bet with a worse hand, you gain no more from a 6th street raise, and you avoid the dilemma of facing a reraise. But again, I should reiterate that there are some overaggressive players where you need to put in more action even though you will occasionally be behind or get drawn out on.

I should also add that checking behind 6th, even though it has merits (avoid possible c/r, induce river bluff), it is fairly weak-tight. You have a strong holding and will not see a clever check/raise there that often.