50NL: Isolating Limpers (General Thoughts)

[O.T.G.]

After playing about 3K hands of 50NL Full Ring today I am beginning to question whether isolating limpers is even worth it at such a low stake. I like to take the lead preflop when I play a hand so if there are 3 limpers and I am on the button with KJs, for example, I will usually raise it to $3. I hate limping behind and having to hit my hand in order to win money. However, after getting destroyed today by all of my out of position opponents I wondering if it is better to just play like a nit and wait for hands. Maybe I am being results oriented since my opponents were hitting the flop like 66% of the time instead of 33% today.

1. Should I still build these pots in position or should I start limping behind?
2. Should I only isolate 1 or 2 limpers and limp behind when there are 3 or more?
3. Would you limp behind with hands like 77 and 88 or would you raise it up?
4. Is it possible to keep losing money when you play almost all your pots in position and the majority of the time you also have the preflop betting lead (assuming good postflop play)?

[Specialwon]

I play 50NL regularly so I'll have a stab at answering.

There aren't any cookie cutter answers to any of your questions. You should be adjusting your play to the table dynamic, not berating the other players for catching cards or not playing the way you want them to play.

In the example you give, KJs plays ok multiway so you don't HAVE to raise it, and you can just treat it like a 50c throwaway if you don't hit. Ditto with small to medium pairs, these can be played either way and I vary my play based on what I think is best for that hand.

For hands that don't play well multiway or where you want the initiative, if you're getting too many callers then increase the size of your bets until the field starts to thin out.

On the right table, I'm happy to raise 5 bucks or more into 3 limpers and still be pretty confident of getting a call, often there is one fish who will pay more than the rest with his K7o or whatever, hopefully you have position on him and can play lots of HU pots out of his comfort zone.

In answer to your last question, if you were really good at pastflop play, you wouldn't be playing 50NL! It sounds like you had a bad session, 3k hands is a tiny sample so you could easily have just been unlucky. From the sound of your post, maybe you are taking an overly mechanical approach to the game?

Good luck.

[Landlord79]

Overly mechanical seems right, your play should be based on the tendencies of the limpers already in the pot and the tendencies of the blinds behind you.

Don't Cbet missed flops into 3 or more people.

Cbets are largely board dependent, figure out your opponent's range and what range of hands your opponent puts you on (if they are putting you on one), then Cbet accordingly.

On occassion, check a low flop, you can't have AA everytime. Be selective with you Cbets. You may feel like you are being weak tight to check behind 2 callers, but if you have your Cbet% up, you'll usually see that you are firing at 75% of the pots (it should be this high IMO, having this stat up on myself lets me know that I am definitely firing more than I am checking behind.)

Definitely raise w/ MPPs, you want a bigger pot built when you hit your set and stack someone. It's hard to stack someone in a small limped pot, and putting someone on a hand is much more difficult.

KJs is marginal at best, raise w/ it when you have a good opportunity to take down the pot uncontested or most of the limpers have a high Fold to CBet%. If you have some donkeys in the game who will pay you off w/ a weaker kicker, then take them to value town.

Yes, a lot of your profits at 50NL will come from making hands and getting paid off. Getting paid off is set up by playing hands aggressively from position. They'll get tired of you raising and Cbetting. When they start playing back at you, you will hopefully make a hand and stack them. Stacking opponents is your goal in NLHE. This is all set up by selectively aggressive play from position.

[RapidEvolution]

I think (in general) that this is really table dependent and player dependent also. You'd like to be raising fewer limpers (1 or 2) and preferably, those with a propensity towards limping and either folding to your raise, or folding the flop to your cbet. Nitty players in the blinds help as well (as opposed to ones who may know what you're doing and reraise you).

I've also seen much more limp/reraising at 50NL than I did at 25NL so make notes on those players who do.

In your example, I think KJs is an excellent hand to limp along with here. It's likely that at least one of the limpers is going to come along for the ride with that raise size. (If you're going to raise, raise to 4). Also limping along keeps your investment minimal in case one of the blinds decides to get frisky (or picks up a really good hand) and makes a huge raise.