Conservative Definition of Freedom

[qwnu]

We talk and read a lot about freedom and liberty, often with an unstated assumption that the meaning of these terms is universal and self-evident.

I've always thought that a free country meant that you could pretty much do whatever you wanted as long as you weren't hurting anyone else.

However, I've recently come across a couple of quotes which struck me both by their similarity, and also with a realization that conservatives, especially religious conservatives, sometimes use the word "freedom" in a special sense, one that is strongly tied to their own subjective morality and notion of "virtue".

First up, Rick Santorum (from a review of his book a couple of years ago):

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In Santorum's view, freedom is not the same as liberty. Or, to put it differently, there are two kinds of freedom. One is "no-fault freedom," individual autonomy uncoupled from any larger purpose: "freedom to choose, irrespective of the choice." This, he says, is "the liberal definition of freedom," and it is the one that has taken over in the culture and been imposed on the country by the courts.

Quite different is "the conservative view of freedom," "the liberty our Founders understood." This is "freedom coupled with the responsibility to something bigger or higher than the self." True liberty is freedom in the service of virtue—not "the freedom to be as selfish as I want to be," or "the freedom to be left alone," but "the freedom to attend to one's duties—duties to God, to family, and to neighbors."

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Then today, I saw the same general idea:

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“The country was founded,” [Tim Minnery, vice president of public policy for Focus on the Family] said, “on a belief that freedom is an inalienable right that comes from the hand of God himself. That freedom is not a freedom to do what you want; that’s anarchy. It is a freedom to do what you ought to do.”

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Personally, my hedonistic notion of freedom is precisely the freedom to be as selfish as I want to be, as well as the freedom to be left alone, obviously within limits.

But it also occurs to me that this notion of freedom in the service of virtue could appeal both to values-conscious religious conservatives (as above) as well as socialist-leaning liberals who are willing to sacrifice personal freedom in order to advance the common collective good.

What's your definition of freedom? Is there anyone who advocates Santorum's "conservative view of freedom"?

[pvn]

Rudy G:

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Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

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[Copernicus]

I don't think it is a particularly "conservative" defintion. Liberals certainly campaign on notions of serving a higher purpose, and whether that is a societal goal vs a spiritual or moral goal is irrelevant. Santorum is right on.

[natedogg]

[ QUOTE ]
Rudy G:

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Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

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G. Orwell:

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freedom is slavery

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PS: hahahahah I knew as soon as I saw that Copernicus responded that he'd defend Santorum's nonsense.

natedogg

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rudy G:

[ QUOTE ]
Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

G. Orwell:

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freedom is slavery

[/ QUOTE ]


PS: hahahahah I knew as soon as I saw that Copernicus responded that he'd defend Santorum's nonsense.

natedogg

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wow and I was wrong that you didnt fall back on one of your ludicrous social security rants.

[ojc02]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it is a particularly "conservative" defintion. Liberals certainly campaign on notions of serving a higher purpose, and whether that is a societal goal vs a spiritual or moral goal is irrelevant. Santorum is right on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who exactly decides what the spiritual or moral goal is? Maybe I think my spiritual goal is to smoke pot until I lose control of my bowels. Is that any more ridiculous than worshiping a figment of my imagination?

What if my goal is to not have a goal? To live in the moment? To be very zen?

If I am free to pursue whatever I consider to be my goal, then that is freedom. If someone else decides, I am, by definition, not free.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it is a particularly "conservative" defintion. Liberals certainly campaign on notions of serving a higher purpose, and whether that is a societal goal vs a spiritual or moral goal is irrelevant. Santorum is right on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who exactly decides what the spiritual or moral goal is? Maybe I think my spiritual goal is to smoke pot until I lose control of my bowels. Is that any more ridiculous than worshiping a figment of my imagination?

What if my goal is to not have a goal? To live in the moment? To be very zen?

If I am free to pursue whatever I consider to be my goal, then that is freedom. If someone else decides, I am, by definition, not free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then no one in the history of human civilization has been, or ever will be, free.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
Rudy G:

[ QUOTE ]
Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
Makes you wonder if he's ever read Orwell before. Was he taking notes?

[owsley]

natedogg > copernicus imo, lol

[ojc02]

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Then no one in the history of human civilization has been, or ever will be, free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, that might well be true.