Can i get some insight 10nl

[Kingz22]

Oh - and ALWAYS keep 0524432's words in mind when you head into a flop with a pocket pair.

[Spurious]

nevermind, misunderstood something.

[HighOctane]

Preflop is fine. You are increasing the stakes so if yo hit you are more likely to play for stacks. In the BB I think it is especially OK since you will be folding most flops anyway. Flop bet is not good. You have the bottom end. But if you are going to bet in the hopes that they will fold, make it at least a credible bet. No one is going away getting almost 9:1 and you are likely getting raised again (which you did - so it is time to give up).

[Smilin']

[ QUOTE ]
It's a simple example of implied odds. You're going to flop a set 12.5% of the time (1 in 8). Therefor, the villain needs to have AT LEAST 8 times the size of the bet to see the flop (wether you initiated half or all of the raise) in order for the call to be +eV. In this case, after the .75 cost to see the flop, villain has only 6.4333 times the raise left behind. Not only is this not even 8, 8 is a base #, if you think you can stack the villain if you flop a set (which in the case of limp/raise utg your chances are very good), the more $ they have behind, the better!

[/ QUOTE ]

At the point where UTG reraises, it costs only 35 cents to see the flop, not 75 cents. If UTG has AA or KK almost always after limp-reraising (and is very likely to stack off with it), then calling the limp-reraise for set value seems reasonable--especially since I hate the image of raising only to fold to a min-reraise.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's a simple example of implied odds. You're going to flop a set 12.5% of the time (1 in 8). Therefor, the villain needs to have AT LEAST 8 times the size of the bet to see the flop (wether you initiated half or all of the raise) in order for the call to be +eV. In this case, after the .75 cost to see the flop, villain has only 6.4333 times the raise left behind. Not only is this not even 8, 8 is a base #, if you think you can stack the villain if you flop a set (which in the case of limp/raise utg your chances are very good), the more $ they have behind, the better!

[/ QUOTE ]

At the point where UTG reraises, it costs only 35 cents to see the flop, not 75 cents. If UTG has AA or KK almost always after limp-reraising (and is very likely to stack off with it), then calling the limp-reraise for set value seems reasonable--especially since I hate the image of raising only to fold to a min-reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

glad you posted this comment. yes, the utg limper has only charged you an additional .35 to see the flop, but its the TOTAL % of the stacks that it costs to SEE the flop that matters. You initiated the first raise, and he made it more $ to see the flop, those 2 things are regardless. It's costing you .75 to flop your set. The player most likely to give you his stack, is the UTG limp/rasier. In this case, he DOES NOT have enough $ behind to even warrant calling the min raise pre. Don't get me wrong, poker is a "heat of the battle" game where it's often easier to make the best possible play here in forum than in practice. I might very well call PF like our Hero did, BUT, it's just simply -eV. You're not going to flop a set enough times to make it worth winning his stack.

As for the image of opening bb, and folding to an utg 3b. Yes, you won't see it often, but if you think about it from a 3rd person view, it's not too unreasonable. The UTG limp/raise MUCH more often than not is one of a very few premium hands which almost every hand flops horrible against. Image you can control, you can't control this UTG players' line and his stack size.

[Caelallaiach]

Smilin' is right, when the action comes back round to Hero, the pot is $2 and he has $0.35 to call, so he is getting laid close to 6 to 1 pots odds. In addition to this, UTG has $4.81 left in his stack.

So if we assume that if Hero always wins the pot if he hits his set (which Hero will a very high % of the time) then we can say:-
Minimum Hero will win: $2
Maximum Hero could win if he stacks UTG: $2 + $4.81 = $6.81

So Hero is calling $0.35 to potentially win $6.81, about 5% of what he could win in total, but remember $2 of that is already in the pot, so it is definitely a call at this point IMO.

[0524432]

I don't understand what's confusing here. If you consistantly make this call to set mine against a short stack (under 8x the PF cost in this case) you will NOT make enough $ to make this call profitable.

[Caelallaiach]

[ QUOTE ]
The UTG limp/raise MUCH more often than not is one of a very few premium hands which almost every hand flops horrible against.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this statement, in my experience an UTG limp reraise in 10NL, is very often a weak player with a big pocket pair, who knows that it is a great preflop hand, wants to get more money in the pot but doesn't want to scare people away.

In this spot I would actually be hoping they have AA or KK because they are giving you great odds to call and you can just fold if you miss and stack them most of the time when you hit, which is definitely +EV.

[Caelallaiach]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand what's confusing here. If you consistantly make this call to set mine against a short stack (under 8x the PF cost in this case) you will NOT make enough $ to make this call profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to make your decision based on the current situation. When the action gets back to Hero, he can either fold or call for $0.35 more. Hero doesn't have the option of withdrawing his raise to $0.40, that money now belongs to the pot.

As the hand overall goes then you are right, you do not ideally want to get this much of your stack in against a big pocket pair, but you have to re-evaluate the pot odds and implied odds as each decision comes.

The point is this - if Hero calls for $0.35 more, he will make 20 times this stake often enough in this situation to make specifically the call of $0.35 a +EV decision.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
In this spot I would actually be hoping they have AA or KK because they are giving you great odds to call and you can just fold if you miss and stack them most of the time when you hit, which is definitely +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

DING DING DING!!!!!!!