10NL: Rivered stone-cold nuts, what is the best play?

Bostik · #1 08-17-2007, 05:42 PM

This hand took place just a few moments ago. I'd love to know how to get the most value out of it.

Reads:
Table is the standard friday-night limp fest. About 20% of pre-flop raises have been re-raised, and perhaps another 20% have seen at least one caller. Limped pots have generally 4-5 players seeing the flop.

UTG+1 is very loose, and slightly aggressive. He plays far too many hands, limping in at least 70% of the time and then calling 4x+1 raises. Likes to bet and semi-bluff, but during ~60 hands called all-in only once. Has reloaded to $6 at least twice so far.

MP3 is a solid player, has always had at least a decent hand at showdown. Picks up orphan pots by using his tight image.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop

UTG ($13.25)
UTG+1 ($6.35)
MP1 ($10.15)
Hero ($18.65)
MP3 ($12.90)
CO ($11.25)
Button ($2.15)
SB ($1.90)
BB ($11.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, MP3 calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Since there had been relatively little pre-flop raising, I tried to see a cheap flop. Rest of the table kindly obliged.

Flop: ($0.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.25.

My 1/2 pot bet was more a blocking and information bet than anything else. I figured that if I didn't bet, MP3 would have. I wanted to represent that I had hit something.

Turn: ($1.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

This was a blank for me, T9 and 45 just made a straight. After getting called on flop, I knew the other two liked to play. Idea was to get a free river or fold to any normal sized bet.

River: ($1.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets $0.2, Hero raises to $0.9, MP3 calls $0.90, UTG+1 raises to $1.6, Hero ...?

The river dropped the jackpot. Flush draws missed and I got the stone-cold nuts. Now the question is, how do I extract the maximum value? After MP3 flat-calls my raise, I'm at a loss as to how to continue. I want to get the maximum amount out of both villains.

I'll post the final hand results in the morning, after reading your insights and criticisms.

xxGreat1xx · #2 08-17-2007, 05:49 PM

shove

Teddie · #3 08-17-2007, 05:50 PM

Just shove it.

Falc · #4 08-17-2007, 06:00 PM

Checkfold flop. Shove river.

tautomer · #5 08-17-2007, 06:03 PM

You have to put him on a T and figure he isn't folding for the $4 left in his stack. Easy shove. Against a bigger stack I'd probably just put in a decent reraise to like $8 and hope he shoves his bare T. Although shoving there could also be best long term.

KurtSF · #6 08-17-2007, 06:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Checkfold flop. Shove river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Larude · #7 08-17-2007, 06:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My 1/2 pot bet was more a blocking and information bet than anything else. I figured that if I didn't bet, MP3 would have. I wanted to represent that I had hit something.

[/ QUOTE ]

A blockbet is when you have some kind of hand and want to get cheap to the river, here you have nothing but a gutshot... And what would you need the information for? You are pumping up the pot with nothing at all.

Bostik · #8 08-18-2007, 12:30 AM

The actual play went like this:

River: ($1.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets $0.2, Hero raises to $0.9, MP3 calls $0.90, UTG+1 raises to $1.6, Hero raises to $4.5, MP3 folds, UTG+1 raises to $7.4, Hero calls $1.50.

Final Pot: $15.55

So I got about as lucky as it is humanly possible to get here. UTG+1 made my play for me and I should not take any pride in that.

The pot was originally tiny compared to stacks. After UTG+1 raised again, I got greedy. I was really hoping MP3 had a good hand and wanted him to re-raise. As tautomer said, UTG+1 was not getting away.

But you are right, I should have just ignored MP3 altogether and shoved. If he had anything to raise again with, he would have called as well. Definitely something to store and remember from now on.

[ QUOTE ]

A blockbet is when you have some kind of hand and want to get cheap to the river, here you have nothing but a gutshot...

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. What exactly do you call a bet that is designed to get a free card on next street? I knew it was unlikely to hit a gutshot in one card (about 9%?) but if I got two cheap cards to go for it, I knew I could win a huge pot.

Looking back after a night's sleep, my flop bet was indeed awful. I thought I was trying to put the other players on defensive by showing some strength. What does it really look like if you didn't know the cards?

Larude · #9 08-18-2007, 04:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Right. What exactly do you call a bet that is designed to get a free card on next street? I knew it was unlikely to hit a gutshot in one card (about 9%?) but if I got two cheap cards to go for it, I knew I could win a huge pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okey I stated it somewhat wrong, a blockbet is in theory a bet to get cheap to the next street or to get a cheap showdown not for getting freecards. That would more be like a semibluff. I don't agree with you thinking you could win a huge pot, if nobody bets in a spot, nobody has a hand, nobody bet the turn so they are very likely not to have a big hand, that you got paid off is just luck.

johnc · #10 08-18-2007, 05:32 AM

Pot the flop. The flush draw sucks vs your str8 draw and you need to take advantage of all the fold equity you can at this point (I know it's not alot but folding ANY potential hand that could draw out on you to beat your potential str8 is $).

As played AI on river...