General question - you call and it's a cooler

[FoldEqu1ty]

This happens often - I make a debatable call with a mid-strength hand versus a huge fish, and it turns out they hit some ridiculous suckout.

When this happens I ALWAYS write it off as a cooler, and auto-pigeonhole my call as +EV, thinking: "They're 50vpip and bad enough to call those bets with a gutshot, which makes their range on the river massive. 90% of the time I'm good on the river, and this bet could have been plenty of things. Meh, call is +EV, cooler."

Is this approach fine?



Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $93.50
BB: $98.69
Hero (UTG): $98.50
CO: $118.00
BTN: $89.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $4.00</font>, 3 folds, BB calls $3.00

Flop: ($8.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $6.00</font>, BB calls $6.00

Turn: ($20.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $14.00</font>, BB calls $14.00

River: ($48.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $36.00</font>, Hero calls $36.00

Pot Size: $120.50 ($2 Rake)

BB had T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a straight Nine to King) and WON (+$58.50)
Hero had A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pairs, Aces and Threes) and LOST (-$60.00)

[minSim]

Very opponent specific. I generally check turn, call river.

[begbie100]

yeah, vpip 50 is not enough info. If he's a CS, I'm folding river. Against "tricky" 50/20 maniacs it's different, but I can see fold here even with maniac. 3flush,straight and paired board.

I'm valuebetting turn though

[Daddy Warbucks]

Hero has position and the nut flush redraw. Betting the turn is fine. If the board wasn't counterfeiting all the broadway 2 pairs, i might fold river when he donks into me.

FWIW, i've been asking myself this same question a lot lately, as i'm a huge station.

[pdoran10]

not commenting on this hand in particular, but i think this is a big problem and people use the idea of coolers as a crutch to make bad calls because they get emotionally attached to hands. kinda a little theory of mine.

[begbie100]

[ QUOTE ]

FWIW, i've been asking myself this same question a lot lately, as i'm a huge station.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm also doing this way, way too much. And usually with my whole stack.

[Genz]

It's not that the river card was a blank. The flushdraw came in on the turn and straights are possible on the river. So I'm less inclined to think "bluff bluff bluff" when I'm donked into and usually a one pair hand isn't strong enough then. Just as someone else said: the low pair on the board would make me call here because KQ, QJ etc. are in his range. But I don't feel confident about it.

[ArgusSpets]

ehm the paired board acutally helps us ALOT. this is definately a call.

[sh58]

i have found there is a kind of fish that i encounter often on party 100NL (this is where i play too) that c/c flop and turn, never bet or raise, but then they lead out almost everytime on the river. the most common line is:
you raise PF, they call. they c/c flop, you check behind turn, they bet into you on river thinking you missed.

if you look at there AF stats they are usually like F:0.7, T:0.5, R:2 or something.

this situation is a little different, as you have shown no weakness. it's a tricky spot, and the flush draw hit, there are straights and several 2 pair hands. i'd fold with the info you have given. i think he would play the flush the same way.

btw - i'm an obsessive bluff catcher agaisnt these fish, but this doesn't look like a bluff

edit: oops, didn't notice that we had counterfeited the 2 pairs. i still fold tho

[Rainclouds]

Yeah this is a cooler and this approach is fine imo.

If we look at the results from this hand specific, villain called $14 on the turn with 3 outs. To have enough implied odds, he needed to win a 44/3*14 = $205 pot, but instead he won only $84,50. So you can do this everytime and you'll still make a big profit from the times he misses. Not to mention the times he has 2 (or 3) pair or air here.

So if it's generally this type of hands (suckouts) you lose to, you're doing fine.

But if you find yourself regularly paying a fish off who flopped 2 pair or a set while you have TPTK, it's different.