Slow playing a hand, when? Or NEVER?

[insyder19]

Okay guys, I already posted this somewhere else, who cares anyway.

I kinda feel THAT I lose too many pots because I slow play them. I mean I am 90+% favorite on the flop to WIN but because I slow play and let the opponent see a card (not for free) they always seem to suck out against me.

An example:

I have 9Ts, he has AJs, raises, I call.

flop: TT5 rainbow, he raises, i reraise, he RERAISES, I flat call (thought he had AA or KK or was bluffing and would keep pushign on the turn)

At THIS point I was 96% favorite to win.

turn: 2, 2 diamonds on the board now, he goes all in and has the nut flush draw, I obviously call.

on the river he makes the flush.

MY QUESTION IS:

Is it better to push ALL IN on the flop? I am sure he would have folded because he just had A high, or was my play correct?

I am confused because if I pushed all in and he folded I would have won about 550 instead of losing 800, in case he would have folded. But then I was 96% favorite to win.

Is it better to push all in and win smaller pots each time then to flat call and lose 4% of the time?

Maybe I am just pissed off because lately my play keeps losing because some really [censored] hand keeps on beating mine premium hands.

Post your thoughts. And let me know when you think SLOW PLAY would make sense. I am not talking about quads or royal/straight flushes, there is no doubt about that. But what other hands would be good to slow play?

[Gonso]

Stack sizes? Also, what is the context? Is this a cash game or a HU situation at the end of a SNG?

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flop: TT5 rainbow, he raises, i reraise, he RERAISES, I flat call (thought he had AA or KK or was bluffing and would keep pushign on the turn)

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The flat call would look like a T to me more than anything. Can't answer without stack size, and maybe some info on player/situation. In most scenarios my money is going in the pot here. You're losing to a better T or boat but you're beating a bunch as well. It look like he has a hand here, this is the spot. If he has JJ or QQ you don't want an A or K scaring him off.

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Is it better to push ALL IN on the flop? I am sure he would have folded because he just had A high, or was my play correct?

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Depends. It won't look like a draw to push on that board, so you've either got a hand or a bluff. If you can sell bluff to a guy holding QQ, pushing is reasonable. What you're usually looking for is a call to get some value out of what is almost certainly the best hand.

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I am confused because if I pushed all in and he folded I would have won about 550 instead of losing 800, in case he would have folded. But then I was 96% favorite to win.

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This is results oriented. With this little bit of stack info you weren't deep at all on the flop. Your mission there was to find a way to get all of the money in, whether on the flop or turn or all three streets. If he has 55 or QT, oh well.

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Is it better to push all in and win smaller pots each time then to flat call and lose 4% of the time?

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Unless the effective stack sizes are very, very deep then no.

Overall it sounds like you charged him more than enough and he outdrew.

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Post your thoughts. And let me know when you think SLOW PLAY would make sense.

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Very rarely FR. A little more often 6-max. Much more HU. It's player dependent. Against a weak-tight calling station, why give any free cards? Just bet. If he's an aggressive player, you can turn the action to him because he's likely to built the pot for you.

[insyder19]

We both had about 450.

Blinds: 2/4

preflop raise was to 16, I already limped.

On the flop, his raise was about 26, I reraised to 95, he reraised to 195. He had like 150 left in his stack.

Should have pushed all in.

[Barfunkel]

I have two rules for slowplaying:

1) I must believe I can make more money on later streets than I would make by raising now.

AND

2) The hand must be strong enough that I will call an all-in without hesitation regardless of the cards that come on further streets.


In practise, I hardly ever slowplay unless I flop at least a full house, and even some full houses aren't good enough to slowplay, ie. when you have 77 and the flop is AA7 I always raise because you I only get action from an ace and I want to get my money in before the opponent hits his kicker.

[JPFisher55]

[ QUOTE ]
I have two rules for slowplaying:

1) I must believe I can make more money on later streets than I would make by raising now.

AND

2) The hand must be strong enough that I will call an all-in without hesitation regardless of the cards that come on further streets.


In practise, I hardly ever slowplay unless I flop at least a full house, and even some full houses aren't good enough to slowplay, ie. when you have 77 and the flop is AA7 I always raise because you I only get action from an ace and I want to get my money in before the opponent hits his kicker.

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I agree completely. I might checkraise the flop with TPTK or overpair that is KK or AA. But only if no flush draws or possible open ended straight draws exist and only 1 card over a T. And I often do not slowplay in such circumstance. Usually only when the opponent has raised preflop or is known to be aggressive.

[AaronBrown]

There are two reasons to slowplay. The first is to make more money on this hand. Suppose there are X dollars in the pot and you can take it now with a bet. If you bet, your EV is X. If you don't bet, three things can happen:

(1) The other player doesn't improve, and you just win X

(2) The other player improves enough to call an additional bet of B, but not to win, so you win X + B

(3) The other player improves enough to beat you, and you lose B.

In order for this to be +EV, B times the probability of (2) has to be greater than X+B times the probability of (3). That means, it's not enough that you have a high probability of winning, you need a high probability of winning given that the other player improves enough to call a bet next round. A perfect example is when you have a full house and the other player is drawing for a flush.

However, even if the slowplay is not +EV this hand, it can buy you extra cards on future hands. If people know you sometimes slowplay, they will think harder about betting into you. So if it is a close call on this hand, you're often better off slowplaying than not.

[sickofants]

The answer definitely isn't never.

Consider a situation where you have T6 in an unraised pot with 3 limpers and the flop is TT6 rainbow... SB checks.... The chances of anyone having a piece of it are slim at best and no PF raise indicates there is no-one holding an overpair. You HAVE TO let your opponents hit their overcards or hit a flush draw or a straight draw (and fingers crossed actually make them). Further, if an opponent bets the flop, raising is foolish; he's gonna fold 90% of the time. Let him bluff it again or catch up.

I might do it with a flopped nut straight (using both hole cards) who's highest card is an 8 or lower too.

There are certainly other examples where it is a good idea but these seem fairly clearcut.