How do I learn to be consistent when I am in a hand?

Mr. Curious · #1 05-22-2006, 03:14 PM

For the most part, if I am not in a hand, I can generally read everyone else. Maybe not their specific cards, but whether they are betting with overpairs, on bluffs, making two pair, afraid of the river card, etc.

What I haven't been able to do consistently is read people like that while I am in a hand. I would say that maybe 20-30% of the time, I can be in a hand and read everyone else. There have been (a few) days when it is 100% and plenty more 0% days.

Do I just need to play more and eventually it will just "click"?
Could it be a psychological factor (fear of losing, results orientated thinking, etc.) that is taking up too much of my mental energy in a hand?
Do I just need to learn to focus on the game more?

usaftrevor · #2 05-22-2006, 05:05 PM

Focus.

It's amazing how much you miss in the short amount of time it takes to look down at your chips and count out a bet.

I spend alot of time in the most profitable seat of a poker game, the dealer's box. Like you were saying, my reads when I'm dealing are sooooo much better than they are when I'm playing.

I think some of it is ego driven. One thing I try to do, is not look my hole cards until the person to my right has acted. Try to lay your chips out so you can spend a minimal amount of time counting out your bet. The longer your eyes are off the action, the more you're missing.

As mentioned in almost every book, esp Caro's - don't look at the board when you're in the hand and the flop comes out - look at your opponent's reaction to the board. Contrary to popular belief, the board will not change if you wait to look at it.

If you're reads are solid when you're out of the hand, you're just missing the little vital pieces while you're in it.

- Trevor

Copernicus · #3 05-22-2006, 05:37 PM

The other effect when you are in a hand is lack of objectivity, which could be from either direction.

Some people will try and put the opponent on hands they can beat so they will give more action. Others will look for monsters under the bed and fold when they have a lot of value in the hand.

SlowStroke · #4 05-22-2006, 07:41 PM

Very common dilemma.

B&M poker dealers are especially prone to this. They can read everybody's hand when they are dealing. But when playing themselves, this skill mysteriously disappears.

My opinion is that the reason is detachment.

When observing, you are detached. You may be interested and focused, but you are not attached to any outcome. There is no good or bad. You are not rooting for any card. There is no judgment. The hand simply plays itself out while you observe it and your perceptions are clear and accurate.

When you are in the hand you are not detached. You are very attached to a desired outcome. Winning is good. Losing is bad. There are cards you hope to see. Cards you do not want to see. There are hands you are hoping your opponents hold. Hand you don't want them to have. Your perceptions are distorted. Mistakes are inevitable from this point of view.

The higher the limits, or bigger the pot, or deeper into a tournament, the worse this problem becomes.

Detachment is one of the biggest skills top players have developed. It's not easy but it can be done. Just recognizing it and starting to work on this part of yourself is a big deal. Some of the most important poker skills have nothing to do cards.

bernie · #5 05-23-2006, 04:34 AM

Didn't we talk about this before? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Experience. Play 30 hours a week for a few months and it will come around. Remember to take your time assessing all the factors. Once you get that kind of 'routine' down while in a hand, it will get faster.

On nights where you aren't 'reading' that well, and the game is a bit tougher, tighten up a bit up front.

Strong reads are secondary to a strong initial game. Treat it accordingly.

b

TStoneMBD · #6 05-23-2006, 09:43 AM

could be youre playing in games with some better players than you along with worse players. you know exactly how the good players are playing against the fish and therefore can read their hands precisely. they dont need to be deceptive about their play because the fish dont know what they have anyway. when they play in a pot vs you you expect them to play the hand the same way they played it vs the fish but they know you were paying attention so they play deceptively vs you instead.

poker_nut · #7 05-23-2006, 11:47 AM

Here's my thoughts on it:

I think the main aspect is that being the dealer you are never faced with situations where you are first to act or are faced with a bet upfront when you are in middle position somewhere with others behind you yet to act. I'm not convinced a dealer can narrow down hands better than a player in this situation because frankly the dealer has less information than the player right here as he doesn't know the player's hole cards which can narrow down hand ranges of other opponents.

Also being the card dealer enables you to see all the action around and make a hand read when sufficient information comes to light, and is pretty much like acting last on a hand or the player on the button. You always get the information last and never really have to put someone on a hand when you have a decent hand yourself, figuring whether you are ahead or behind etc. And of course detachment helps a lot to stay calm, objective and clear in thought. Under pressure in a hand holding TP3K on a flop that could well be the best hand but you are not sure, the pressure affects objectivity and clear thinking.

Poker_nut.

jkkkk · #8 05-23-2006, 03:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]

My opinion is that the reason is detachment.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, Dissociation:

The disconnection from full awareness of self, time, and/or external circumstances. It is a complex neuropsychological process. Dissociation exists along a continuum from normal everyday experiences to disorders that interfere with everyday functioning.

Fhil Ivey · #9 05-23-2006, 10:25 PM

I have a theory for this too. I think when you are in a hand you CANNOT look at everything objectively because you have a table image (rock,maniac, etc..) People will make plays according to your image

bernie · #10 05-24-2006, 04:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have a theory for this too. I think when you are in a hand you CANNOT look at everything objectively because you have a table image (rock,maniac, etc..) People will make plays according to your image

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure you can. Many will play the same way regardless of your image. You can still look at it based on how they are reacting to others' 'images'.

b