Opponent says..." That's why I hate limit"

Mike Gallo · #1 03-11-2007, 02:48 AM

Typical Saturday afternoon $10-$20 game at the Borgata.

A regular losing player limped under the gun. Three more players limped to me and I completed my small blind with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Flop

5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet regular losing player raised, everyone else folded I called.

Turn (4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I checked he bet I raised he called.

River 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, he called because he could not lay down his set of Jacks, which led to the following comment, " Thats why I hate limit, in no limit I would have pushed him out".

Of course had my opponent raised pre-flop, I would have certainly folded.

Bob T. · #2 03-11-2007, 02:50 AM

If my opponent raised preflop, I would have called.

I probably would have lost a lot more if I held his hand.

Mike Gallo · #3 03-11-2007, 02:57 AM

If my opponent raised preflop, I would have called.

Had he raised, nobody would have called, hence his reason for limping. The game had a strange dynamic, if players limped others followed, if someone raised everyone folded.

Bob T. · #4 03-11-2007, 03:03 AM

Never mind, I read the hand wrong, I thought that you were in the BB.

bravos1 · #5 03-11-2007, 04:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If my opponent raised preflop, I would have called.

Had he raised, nobody would have called, hence his reason for limping.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he hates limit becausehe sucks at it! JJ is a premium hand that is vunerable to many flops. Why do I want to limp my jacks so every Tom, Dick, and Harry w/ an A-Q can come join? Obviously, you can add 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] as well.. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I would be very happy raising and just taking the blinds. If I just won the blinds every time I open raised, I would be extremely happy! You played your hand correctly, he did not, and you win.. seems OK too me. If he plays his hand correctly, he wins.. funny how that often happens.

Mike · #6 03-11-2007, 10:57 AM

It is a weak tight game according to the description. I count four players in the hand besides the player holding JJ preflop. That makes eight cards between them.

Anyone holding JJ will see an overcard 57% of the time. Even if you only give credit for only three cards being bigger than the pair of jacks, that is nine outs against two outs for JJ to improve to a set. I think this makes JJ a marginal raise and a strong call?

If utg does not get raised pf, he really doesn't know where he stands with or without an overcard on the board. If utg does get raised preflop, he doesn't know where his hand is either no matter what the flop.

In games with weak tight players - if I read the description correctly, JJ may as well be 22, because they usually aren't playing post flop unless they make a hand they think will win. I don't think utg played poorly.

JJH3984 · #7 03-11-2007, 12:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In games with weak tight players - if I read the description correctly, JJ may as well be 22, because they usually aren't playing post flop unless they make a hand they think will win.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh. No. Read (or reread) SSHE.

I feel like this is a topic we keep rehashing in different ways. Sometimes its actually interesting. This time it isn't. JJ is an auto raise in an unraised pot from any position, especially in this type of game. Someone with almost 1000 posts should know that by now.

J

Bob T. · #8 03-11-2007, 06:06 PM

UTG played like a fish. There is a 46% chance that he will either have an overpair, or a set on the flop. If he raises, and they all call, he is getting a lot better odds on the money that goes in than he needs to make this a posev play. If he raises and they all fold, he made 3/4 of a big bet on Jacks, and that is probably above average for him. If he raises, and he gets one caller, most likely, he has improved his eventual chance of winning by at least a third, this is one chance where you could protect a vulnerable hand preflop, by raising.

Its the same kind of scenario, when there is a raise in front of you, and you will be second into the pot with Js, Ts, or 9s, or AK, you don't know that your hand is best, but you can threebet, and you will very likely improve your chances of winning the pot.

Mllndllrmn · #9 03-11-2007, 02:53 AM

If this was a full ring sometimes people don't pf raise with JJ cos they are afraid of so many hands behind them. Sucky hand for him still, but well played.

Mike Gallo · #10 03-11-2007, 02:55 AM

If this was a full ring sometimes people don't pf raise with JJ cos they are afraid of so many hands behind them. Sucky hand for him still, but well played.

The table dynamic varied from hand to hand. If he had raised from under the gun, he would not have gotten any action the way the table played.